St. Paul City Council OKs final plan for Central Corridor light-rail line
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posted by Bob at Thursday, March 19, 2009
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Thursday, March 19, 2009
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23 Comments:
Park-bench talks, charged speeches precede deal
By Dave Orrick
dorrick@pioneerpress.com
Posted: 03/19/2009 12:01:00 AM CDT
The St. Paul City Council will not be the death of the Central Corridor.
Council members Wednesday night unanimously approved the planned $914 million light-rail line scheduled to link St. Paul and Minneapolis by 2014.
But it wasn't pretty.
It was an evening that featured lengthy speeches, confusion by lawyers and project engineers, and a final deal ironed out on a park bench outside City Hall at 9:15 p.m. Nonetheless, by the end of the night, all relevant parties — Mayor Chris Coleman, the city council, the Central Corridor project office and the St. Paul Area Chamber of Commerce — were satisfied.
"We're very pleased. Project on schedule," Central Corridor Director Mark Fuhrmann said after the vote.
While the city council went through its normal business after at first failing to agree on conditions it should put on the project for its approval, Fuhrmann, city officials, political aides and others holed up in mayoral offices to hash things out.
The biggest hurdle was the council giving a green light to a controversial plan to put a maintenance facility in an abandoned warehouse in Lowertown, surmounting what had become an obstacle some said threatened to derail the whole project.
Originally, officials had planned to build the train-car maintenance facility southeast of the Union Depot along the Mississippi River. But a host of problems, including historical landmark protection, pollution and unstable soil, prompted officials to switch
gears this winter and select the former Diamond Products building, at Fourth and Broadway streets.
Lowertown residents and business owners revolted against the idea on grounds it was a bad use for the property and would harm the neighborhood's character. Council Member Dave Thune carried the torch for them.
Several weeks ago, Thune seemed on the verge of gathering a majority of council members to oppose the site. That prompted a scramble by Coleman and warnings of doom for the entire project by Metropolitan Council Chair Peter Bell.
A vote was postponed this month so the St. Paul Riverfront Corp. could study the controversy. On Wednesday, Executive Director Patrick Seeb presented his findings: The Diamond Products site would allow the Central Corridor to be built on time and on budget; picking a different site would not.
After delivering a passionate speech extolling the virtues of Lowertown and railing on the "second-fiddle" mindset of St. Paul, Thune acknowledged not only that his voice was growing hoarse, but also that he didn't have the votes to oppose the site. He withdrew his opposition.
But that only began the odd drama of the evening.
The chief order of business was for the city to give its "municipal consent" to the entire project as it currently stands. After decades of talk and years of hard planning on the current configuration, Wednesday served as city council members' moment to voice their thoughts once and for all.
Activists from several neighborhoods and varying interests were in the crowd, and speeches were expected as a list of mounting frustrations would be aired by council members about the line, which will run from the Union Depot toward the Capitol and along University Avenue en route to Minneapolis.
Council Member Russ Stark, for example, spoke on the need to not sacrifice bus service around University Avenue in exchange for rail. Stark also has pushed for pedestrian-friendly improvements along University, including wider sidewalks, but he doesn't want engineers to forget that many University Avenue businesses depend on parking for their patrons.
Council Member Melvin Carter III spoke of the continuing desire to add three stations — at Hamline, Western and Victoria — should the money become available. That's an issue that has been especially sensitive in minority communities, where some have expressed social-justice concerns that without such stations, areas that need the economic boost promised by the line won't get it.
Thune wanted a host of assurances related to horns and train speed in Lowertown and an agreement from Coleman to push the St. Paul Port Authority to try to redevelop the portion of the Diamond Products site that won't include the rail facility.
During a recess of the council meeting, Thune and Coleman's point person, Nancy Homans, sat on a park bench on Kellogg Boulevard and hammered out those final conditions.
Lets pull a Hwy 55 on university Ave.
We can get the Minnesota State Hwy Portal , and camp out on the capital lawn.
Let protest for at least two years, that's just to burn up the funding in the state.
Looks like Thune "sold out" and trashed the neighborhood with a maintenance facility. Way to go Dave!
Can we ever trust the City Council to vote the way they really would ?
I believe Thune did sell out his vote if his change of mind can be easily swayed by the way his fellow council members are voting.
Imagine if our Supreme Court Justices voted this way when they were deciding cases ?
The courts can agree with each other, but the difference is, they don't decide cases just because they feel they won't have the support of the other justices .
Thune the Goon !
Jeff Matiatos
Chuck, you should be ashamed to even know this guy.
Wow. Can you folks even read?
The votes were with the Mayor to acquire the south (Diamond) building for the maintenence facility. Thune lost the fight, he didn't have four votes to stop it.
What was agreed to was an effort from the City to explore acquiring the north building for redevelopment.
How can anyone read that article and not get that Thune did everything that he could to stand in front of the train and there was nothing left to do, but to try to get at least something for the neighborhood?
Few elected officials have the guts to do what Thune did in the face of a full court press from the Mayor, the Chamber and from Labor.
And then after they lose to still try and at least get a partial victory for the neighborhood rather than to just walk of in a huff says something about his dedication.
Its amazing how blind you people can be. It is one of many reasons why I am proud to be his friend. The easy thing to do would have been to do nothing. Or to vote no and get nothing. Thune worked to the end for the people that live in Lowertown.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
The article says :
" Several weeks ago, Thune seemed on the verge of gathering a majority of council members to oppose the site " .
Chuck, we all know the council as a whole supports the rail line.
Why does Thune have to sacrifice his vote and pride ( I question now whether he has any ) to appease his fellow council members ?
He just digs himself a whole with the citizens when he is SO against something to start, and then changes his mind not because of the voices of the citizens, but of his friends on the council.
Who is he working for anyways ?
His time is up and he should be off the council.
What rigging system is in place that the same idiots keep getting staying on the council ?
Jeff Matiatos
Thune was the odd man out Chuck, his no vote wouldn,t have affected the decision anyways.
Instead, he jumped on the bandwagon to take credit for what ultimitley alot of St.Paul citizens and small buisness owners oppose.
Traitor I say.
The council hardly ever listens to the citizens of this city.
Jeff Matiatos
"The easy thing to do would have been to do nothing. Or to vote no and get nothing."
He did the easy thing. He made it look like he was on the side of the neighbors, but in the end he couldn't stay true to his principals cause he has none. He sold out and voted with the rest. He's a coward.
I had a friend that was getting screwed over by the city and Thune told these people he was going to help. He did and then backed out at the last minute and let the people fry. Thune plays it safe when there's hard choices to make. He shouldn't be on the Council.
Well there you go Chuck !
The true citizens are starting to speak about Thune.
He has put himself on the front burner over this rail deal and his opposition will be quick to point out his hypocricy. AGAIN !
Jeff and he votes no and gets nothing for the neighbors, that would be a good thing how?
He tied this thing up for a month. Withstood a full court press from the Mayor, the chamber and labor and was able to extract from the administration that they will work with him to try and acquire the north block.
That is something. Otherwise he had nothing.
There was always going to be a maintenance building, Thune and the neighbors wanted it on Kellogg and hoped to redevelop the Diamond products buildings. The Met Council decided to buy the south Diamond building instead. Thune at least got the administration to agree to work on acquiring the north building.
You would rather he get nothing for the neighborhood and be able to put on a piece of campaign lit that he voted "NO."
Dave's job is to do the best that he can for his district. Getting something is always better than getting nothing.
From a politics end, this wins him no votes. He is seen as opposing the light rail to those who like it and he lost the fight and can't claim a moral victory with the voters (I voted no...). SO WHAT?
Its not about winning elections its about doing the best you can for your constituents. And, with a losing hand, he got a push...
10:18 - some things can't be fixed.
10:24 - it isn't hypocritical to accept a compromise when you can't win.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Watching this debacle on Cable last night, it seemed Helgen stated" NO and make sure my vote is recorded"
PLease check the Hosko pic's, downtown business man.
Further the District Heating Pipes are to be relocated WHERE IS THE EIS AND EAWS ENVIRONMENTAL INPACT AND ASSESSMENT the cost is astronomical: Crazy Council
http://www.billhosko.blogspot.com/
Wow. Can you folks even read?
No, they can't. They see key words and start with the usual uninformed rant. Its the MO
They are frothing so fast that they missed something huge= Labor AND the Chamber of Commerce support this. Unions and business together!
This Chamber is the biggest in the state representing more businesses than any other local chamber in Minnesota.
Ignore that. Jeff knows that this is not good for business. Who cares what business owners say? Jeff knows.
Every member supports the Central Corridor because the people who elected them across the city, including those who voted for the mayor knew they were voting for someone who supported light rail in St Paul.
Again, Jeff knows.
The problem with the board is they have no clue of how government works. Absolutely none and no interest in really trying to understand.
While we're at it, how did that judicial hearing go? Any judges being disciplined by the legislature? Told ya so.
Eric
You know this really is a great example of those who understand how the government works and when one needs to try to at least get something that benefits your constituents.
Jeff's approach is that you should always vote what you believe even if it accomplishes nothing. That way there would be a permanent record that you were against it.
Because he is right, Dave's opponent in the next election will be able to say that Dave voted for the light rail line and the more expensive train garage. Even though, those few who pay attention will know that he fought it and tried to get it moved.
But, that kind of thinking only works if what you are most concerned about is winning elections. By doing what Dave did, he at least got a shot for the neighbors of redeveloping the better half of that redevelopment site. He got them a half of a loaf. That is being a statesman. That is trying to get the best outcome possible.
But, it ain't good politics. Because watch the next election, those against him will say, he should have voted no... even if all that did was get you nothing. And, someone else who is for the line will remember Dave tried to stop it.
Its sad, but that's politics.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Eric, not everyone was for light rail. You believe the magority is for it.
I have not expressed my opinion for or against it.
The members of the board and council have signifigant say whether this thing goes. It matters little what the citizens want because the council members are going to vote whether the citizens support it or not.
I said before that elections for mayor have been lost over public services that are poor and not effective.
Council members usually are attacked at election time for the way they voted and over the integrity of how they served their district citizens.
Again, Thunes no vote meant nothing anyways since the magority went the other way.
Thune could not have voted at all and the result would have been the same.
It's flip flopping at it's best, and it would have been better to stick to his guns in the beggining because now he opened up the door for attack from his opponent.
Politicians who say one thing and do another in haste ( like the stimulus bill ) will pay for it i assure you.
Look at all the fucks like Barney Frank who took money from AIG and have the balls to summon them to capital hill to give back bonuses.
Fucking Democrats lied when they knew they had created a loophole for AIG scabs to get bonuses for doing an incompetent job at least.
I tell you, Thune reminds me of Barney Frank more and more.
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff,
You're beating yourself up between your basic spelling (maJority) errors, deductive fallacies, complete absence of st paul election history, and clear lack of understanding of basic government operations.
You don't have to learn to spell, you can spell check before posting. However the other three deficiencies would require you to take a honest look at yourself and realize, you don't know much about these. People who do know, can tell you're writing to bs and fill in space.
Try to stay on subject.
People who don't vote, cut themselves out of the process.
The DFL and every single candidate does outreach to figure out how to bring in more non-voters to their side. There is no excuse for people who chose not to vote.
So, every single council member and the mayor are there because a majority voted for them. During the last election, light rail was an issue and I can't think of any legitimate opponents running for office who were against light rail.
So, the representatives put in charge of managing the city and making the financial and policy decisions voted in favor of light rail.
You step up and say they are not representative if the people.
Eric
Does that make you feel important Eric to beat up on someone cause they don't spell a word right? If ya got a beef with Jeff, why don't you stick to the facts instead of going the grade school route?
Try reading everything minus the second paragraph for yer facts.
Just for everyones info, my key pad is malfunctioning.
I am getting a new one so expectt my spelling to immprove.
Jeff Matiatos
"You step up and say they are not representative if the people."
Looks like you made a spelling error Eric. I'm assuming you meant "of the people" and not "if the people?"
Or are you just stupid and it was a grammatical error?
At any rate, no one saw fit to point it out to you, so why do you go after Jeff's spelling? Maybe because he has you with the facts?
Looks like you made a spelling error Eric. I'm assuming you meant "of the people" and not "if the people?"
Hahaha. Actually I meant 'it' the people. Referring to the intangible 'people' as collectively described in Middle English as those under one rule...OK, you got me. The irony is blazing.
At any rate, no one saw fit to point it out to you, so why do you go after Jeff's spelling? Maybe because he has you with the facts?
Because it combines with my point of him beating himself up. Spelling was of one issue- the one that I gave him credit for having the ability to change:
Jeff,
You're beating yourself up between your basic spelling (maJority) errors, deductive fallacies, complete absence of st paul election history, and clear lack of understanding of basic government operations.
You don't have to learn to spell, you can spell check before posting. However the other three deficiencies would require you to take a honest look at yourself and realize, you don't know much about these. People who do know, can tell you're writing to bs and fill in space.
I seem to have pointed out several failures. I then go to show his fallacy (look it up. its the opposite of a factual conclusion) in his attempt to separate the people from the electeds.
That's called a factual challenge. The word 'fact' in factual is not there for decoration, it means something.
Eric
OH.....OK.....well thanks for straightening that all for us common folk Eric.
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