Another DUMB law
Folks we have idiots at the helm making laws to bring attention to themselves with little regard for true public safety. I think we all can agree the PEDESTRIAN CROSSING LAW is DUMB.. I have seen one person after another almost get hit by cars while crossing in the cross walk expecting cars to stop for them. Now the goofy law makers are playing with lives again. Please click onto the title of this post for the story.
posted by Bob at Friday, February 02, 2007
5 Comments:
Folks I found this thread interesting, so I dragged it over here from Saint paul Issues and Forums.
Posted Feb 1, 2007 2:52 pm by Matt Anfang
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/16599010.htm
This article reports on a measure that would ban toy guns, or other
"non-lethal firearms", unless they are white, pink or yellow. One of the
arguments is that police officers are confused by the realistic looking toys
and there have been some unfortunate accidents.
I could not imagine having to make an immediate decision like our trained
officers have to, deciding if a life threatening situation is at hand, or if
some punk has got a toy gun pointed at them. Can they be safe if the gun
displyed is pink, yellow or white? No, for the same reason that toy guns
have an orange point that might have been tampered with, or is now painted
black. Now criminal may brandish a weapon, that is now made to be "safe" in
the eyes of a police officer because it has been painted pink, yellow, or
white. Though it may not be the most attractive color for a criminal, the
police still have to make a split second decision.
Pink, Yellow and White spray painted guns. Now the Police officer is at
risk instead of the fool that points any gun at anybody. Another potential
tragic example of the law of unintended consequences.
-Matt Anfang
Highland Park
_______________________________
Posted Feb 1, 2007 4:16 pm by mitch berg
I dunno, Matt - I suspect that criminals painting guns
pink will be a vanishingly-small issue.
The larger issue, of course, is that children today
face a schizophrenic variety of messages. On the one
hand, playing with toy guns is pretty normal and
natural for kids, especially boys - and years of
hysteria have made guns (real, fake and notional) the
subject of what we can only call "unreasoning
hysteria" (which leads, frequently, to what a rational
person can only call "child abuse") in our
(left-of-center) schools. Guns can not be TALKED
about, much less allowing someone to teach students
what is right and wrong.
On the other hand, into that vacuum comes the
(also-left-of-center) entertainment media - TV,
movies, games, music - which fairly GLORIFY firearms
and their irresponsible use.
Being a law-abiding gun owner, I've taught my kids a
couple of things - NEVER point even a toy at anyone,
NEVER wave one at a cop, etc, etc. How many lives
would be saved, how many tragedies forestalled, were
kids in our schools to be taught something to fill the
vaccuum from "above" as well as the media's noxious
glorification?
The NRA has what is simply *the best program* for
training kids in gun safety in the *real world* - what
to do if a friend has a gun, who to call, how to
react, what NOT to do, and what the real-life
consequences are. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR
KNOWLEDGE in this area.
The left is fond of bleating "If we save JUST ONE
LIFE, it'll all be worth it!" OK, here's your chance.
Let the NRA into the schools to teach our kids
(actually, *your* kids, since I'll never allow my kids
to set foot in a SPPS school again) how to *not kill
themselves or each other* if some moron parent leaves
a gun lying around.
So why not? (reasons that rise above the level of
"The NRA? Ickypoopy!" will receive extra
consideration and also are not expected)
Wouldn't it make more sense than moronic proposals
like this chuzzlewitted ordinance?
Mitch Berg
The Midway
--- M Anfang mranfang ( at ) hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/16599010.htm
>
> This article reports on a measure that would ban toy
> guns, or other
> "non-lethal firearms", unless they are white, pink
> or yellow. One of the
> arguments is that police officers are confused by
> the realistic looking toys
> and there have been some unfortunate accidents.
>
> I could not imagine having to make an immediate
> decision like our trained
> officers have to, deciding if a life threatening
> situation is at hand, or if
> some punk has got a toy gun pointed at them. Can
> they be safe if the gun
> displyed is pink, yellow or white? No, for the same
> reason that toy guns
> have an orange point that might have been tampered
> with, or is now painted
> black. Now criminal may brandish a weapon, that is
> now made to be "safe" in
> the eyes of a police officer because it has been
> painted pink, yellow, or
> white. Though it may not be the most attractive
> color for a criminal, the
> police still have to make a split second decision.
>
> Pink, Yellow and White spray painted guns. Now the
> Police officer is at
> risk instead of the fool that points any gun at
> anybody. Another potential
> tragic example of the law of unintended
> consequences.
>
> -Matt Anfang
> Highland Park
________________________________
>
> Matt Anfang
> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
__________________________________
Posted Feb 1, 2007 10:15 pm by Dave Thune
Mitch has a point.
The best - the very best gun tragedy prevention activity happens at home!
I taught my kids NEVER to take a toy gun outdoors after they reached 4'-0"
and prior to that, never point a toy gun at an adult - only other kids in
play.
The fact is,even a screwdriver can be mistaken by a police officer for a gun
in a stress environment.
In our house we taught gun safety at the first sign of pointing fingers and
going "bang bang".
First, NEVER touch a toy gun that isn't your own. It might not be a toy.
Tell an adult.
Then when older came teaching with the bb gun. When I was a kid we
progressed to 22's in scouts.
Not a hunting family we never went further than targeting tin cans up at the
cabin.
For hunting families, or anyone else for that matter Mitch is right, the
NRA's Eddy Eagle gun safety class is the best and most easily accessible and
even better than home teaching.
The popular media has done a great disservice to society by glorifying
killing and gratuitous sex in its shameless promotion to kids. I wish we
could turn back the clock.
dave
w7th st.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitch Berg" mitchpberg ( at ) yahoo.com>
To: "M Anfang" mranfang ( at ) hotmail.com;
stpaul-issues ( at ) forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [SPIF] Banning Toy Guns
> I dunno, Matt - I suspect that criminals painting guns
> pink will be a vanishingly-small issue.
>
> The larger issue, of course, is that children today
> face a schizophrenic variety of messages. On the one
> hand, playing with toy guns is pretty normal and
> natural for kids, especially boys - and years of
> hysteria have made guns (real, fake and notional) the
> subject of what we can only call "unreasoning
> hysteria" (which leads, frequently, to what a rational
> person can only call "child abuse") in our
> (left-of-center) schools. Guns can not be TALKED
> about, much less allowing someone to teach students
> what is right and wrong.
>
> On the other hand, into that vacuum comes the
> (also-left-of-center) entertainment media - TV,
> movies, games, music - which fairly GLORIFY firearms
> and their irresponsible use.
>
> Being a law-abiding gun owner, I've taught my kids a
> couple of things - NEVER point even a toy at anyone,
> NEVER wave one at a cop, etc, etc. How many lives
> would be saved, how many tragedies forestalled, were
> kids in our schools to be taught something to fill the
> vaccuum from "above" as well as the media's noxious
> glorification?
>
> The NRA has what is simply *the best program* for
> training kids in gun safety in the *real world* - what
> to do if a friend has a gun, who to call, how to
> react, what NOT to do, and what the real-life
> consequences are. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR
> KNOWLEDGE in this area.
>
> The left is fond of bleating "If we save JUST ONE
> LIFE, it'll all be worth it!" OK, here's your chance.
> Let the NRA into the schools to teach our kids
> (actually, *your* kids, since I'll never allow my kids
> to set foot in a SPPS school again) how to *not kill
> themselves or each other* if some moron parent leaves
> a gun lying around.
>
> So why not? (reasons that rise above the level of
> "The NRA? Ickypoopy!" will receive extra
> consideration and also are not expected)
>
> Wouldn't it make more sense than moronic proposals
> like this chuzzlewitted ordinance?
>
> Mitch Berg
> The Midway
>
> --- M Anfang mranfang ( at ) hotmail.com wrote:
>
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/16599010.htm
> >
> > This article reports on a measure that would ban toy
> > guns, or other
> > "non-lethal firearms", unless they are white, pink
> > or yellow. One of the
> > arguments is that police officers are confused by
> > the realistic looking toys
> > and there have been some unfortunate accidents.
> >
> > I could not imagine having to make an immediate
> > decision like our trained
> > officers have to, deciding if a life threatening
> > situation is at hand, or if
> > some punk has got a toy gun pointed at them. Can
> > they be safe if the gun
> > displyed is pink, yellow or white? No, for the same
> > reason that toy guns
> > have an orange point that might have been tampered
> > with, or is now painted
> > black. Now criminal may brandish a weapon, that is
> > now made to be "safe" in
> > the eyes of a police officer because it has been
> > painted pink, yellow, or
> > white. Though it may not be the most attractive
> > color for a criminal, the
> > police still have to make a split second decision.
> >
> > Pink, Yellow and White spray painted guns. Now the
> > Police officer is at
> > risk instead of the fool that points any gun at
> > anybody. Another potential
> > tragic example of the law of unintended
> > consequences.
> >
> > -Matt Anfang
> > Highland Park
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Matt Anfang
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/stpaul/groups/stpaul-issues/
________________________________
> mitch berg
> The Midway, Saint Paul
> More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/stpaul/contacts/mitchellberg
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> To post, send your message to: stpaul-issues ( at ) forums.e-democracy.org
>
> To unsubscribe type "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks) in the
> subject line and send to: stpaul-issues ( at ) forums.e-democracy.org
> - - - - - - - - - - -
Posted Feb 1, 2007 10:55 pm by Gary Thompson
Mitch,
I do not agree with you on this, other than the what
you said you taught your kids and the general idea of
kids getting mixed signals. In a free society, we all
get mixed signals. The bigger issues is that the
proliferation of handguns in this society is tragic.
The last group I would want to talk to my children
(they are grown now) about guns is the NRA. This
organization has done more to fuel the proliferation
of handguns than any other. It should be called the
"National Handgun Assoc" for what it has done over the
last 20-30 years. I would be much happier if a police
officer talked to students about guns. It could be
similar to the "Officer Friendly" program that used to
be in St Paul schools. The funding for it may have
been cut by now.
I do agree some with Matt, though, but the proposed
law would be much better, if the colored guns were
left out of the equation.
Without anymore ado, the following letter, that I had
in the Pioneer Press back on 2-28-2003 sums up my
feelings on the handguns. It said in part;
"There should be a warning on all conceal-and-carry
permits and weapons that would go something like this:
"WARNING: According to government statistics, the
possession and carrying of this hand-held firearm will
cause you to greatly multiply your chances of being
shot by a spouse, other family member, friend,
acquaintance, neighbor, intruder, or even yourself.
According to the surgeon general, the consumption of
even small amounts of alcohol or drugs by these
persons, as in operating any machinery, will multiply
these chances further."
Gary Thompson
Highland
--- Mitch Berg mitchpberg ( at ) yahoo.com wrote:
> I dunno, Matt - I suspect that criminals painting
> guns
> pink will be a vanishingly-small issue.
>
> The larger issue, of course, is that children today
> face a schizophrenic variety of messages. On the
> one
> hand, playing with toy guns is pretty normal and
> natural for kids, especially boys - and years of
> hysteria have made guns (real, fake and notional)
> the
> subject of what we can only call "unreasoning
> hysteria" (which leads, frequently, to what a
> rational
> person can only call "child abuse") in our
> (left-of-center) schools. Guns can not be TALKED
> about, much less allowing someone to teach students
> what is right and wrong.
>
> On the other hand, into that vacuum comes the
> (also-left-of-center) entertainment media - TV,
> movies, games, music - which fairly GLORIFY firearms
> and their irresponsible use.
>
> Being a law-abiding gun owner, I've taught my kids a
> couple of things - NEVER point even a toy at anyone,
> NEVER wave one at a cop, etc, etc. How many lives
> would be saved, how many tragedies forestalled, were
> kids in our schools to be taught something to fill
> the
> vaccuum from "above" as well as the media's noxious
> glorification?
>
> The NRA has what is simply *the best program* for
> training kids in gun safety in the *real world* -
> what
> to do if a friend has a gun, who to call, how to
> react, what NOT to do, and what the real-life
> consequences are. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR
> KNOWLEDGE in this area.
>
> The left is fond of bleating "If we save JUST ONE
> LIFE, it'll all be worth it!" OK, here's your
> chance.
> Let the NRA into the schools to teach our kids
> (actually, *your* kids, since I'll never allow my
> kids
> to set foot in a SPPS school again) how to *not kill
> themselves or each other* if some moron parent
> leaves
> a gun lying around.
>
> So why not? (reasons that rise above the level of
> "The NRA? Ickypoopy!" will receive extra
> consideration and also are not expected)
>
> Wouldn't it make more sense than moronic proposals
> like this chuzzlewitted ordinance?
>
> Mitch Berg
> The Midway
------------------------------------
> --- M Anfang mranfang ( at ) hotmail.com wrote:
This article reports on a measure that would ban
> toy
> > guns, or other
> > "non-lethal firearms", unless they are white, pink
> > or yellow. One of the
> > arguments is that police officers are confused by
> > the realistic looking toys
> > and there have been some unfortunate accidents.
> >
> > I could not imagine having to make an immediate
> > decision like our trained
> > officers have to, deciding if a life threatening
> > situation is at hand, or if
> > some punk has got a toy gun pointed at them. Can
> > they be safe if the gun
> > displyed is pink, yellow or white? No, for the
> same
> > reason that toy guns
> > have an orange point that might have been tampered
> > with, or is now painted
> > black. Now criminal may brandish a weapon, that
> is
> > now made to be "safe" in
> > the eyes of a police officer because it has been
> > painted pink, yellow, or
> > white. Though it may not be the most attractive
> > color for a criminal, the
> > police still have to make a split second decision.
> >
> > Pink, Yellow and White spray painted guns. Now
> the
> > Police officer is at
> > risk instead of the fool that points any gun at
> > anybody. Another potential
> > tragic example of the law of unintended
> > consequences.
> >
> > -Matt Anfang
> > Highland Park
____________________________________
Posted Feb 2, 2007 12:41 am by Grace (nicknamed Kelly) Kelly
I grew up in Wisconsin, where there is one week of deer hunting, where at
anytime one is ready to hit the ground from bullets flying nearby. Drunks
with guns, more exciting than Winter Carnival, in a bad way. Cows can't hit the
ground, so one died from being shot. We put up signs saying "COWS"! Guns were
never ever treated like a toy and no one had a toy gun. Farm kids drive
vehicles, shoot guns and do lots of thing that city folk think that only
grown ups do. Here in the city, guns are treated like fine red sports cars,
somehow the ego is stroked in a big way. I only let my children use giant lime
green water "guns". Death and pain are not real to many city kids. Most of them
have only seen a pet die maybe, perhaps at the Vets office. That experience
does not teach caution. I would hope that people use tazers in the city. A
stray gun shot can kill a neighbor's child. A tazer might be lethal, a gun
certainly is. Finding out that the intruder crawling through the window after a
gun shot, is your teenager. who lost his keys. is very tragic. I saw car
accident on Selby the other day, the police were there in less than 2
minutes. So living in the city ought to be a place, where anyone can count on
the cops (apparently unless one is a peace protester at the RNC convention. ) I
really applaud the idea of no realistic looking guns. Why ever make a police
officer's life more difficult? Why ever take the chance? Just like the "COWS"
signs, we do what we can to ensure guns are used safely.
Grace Kelly nicknamed Kelly
Grumpy curmudgeon in Merriam Park
I grew up in the country. I got my first BB gun at age 6. My first shotgun at age 12.
I took the NRA gun safety coarse before I was given my shotgun. And my Dad required me to disassemble my shot gun and reassemble it before he actually gave it to me to keep.
I took this shotgun to school in the 7th. grade to build a gun case for it in wood shop. How bout that!
Times sure have changed.
For all you animal lovers, I haven't hunted in years. I find it difficult to even trap mice or step on a bug. I don't even kill spiders in my house. My girlfriend does, so I am sorry to say all spiders in my home are dead.
I'll take my gun over the Police help any day. If they can make it there on time, that is one thing, but Grace's thoughts that I should trust my life to the Police being somewhere in 2 minutes just because she does is laughable. That's the whole deal with these anti guns nuts, they want to bet your life and saftey for their beliefs! What a fool!
REALLY ALL THIS STUFF IS, IS A CHIPPING AWAY OF THE RIGHTS TO BEAR ARMS. A LITTLE HERE, AND A LITTLE THERE.. HERE IS JUST 2 STORIES OF MANY WHY EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A GUN IN THEIR HOME.
I have a friend who is from Stevens Point Wisconsin. Ironically he moved to Phoenix Arizona 3 months before I moved there and I had know clue he was there. I ran into him at the Stage Coach Bar on Camel Back in Scottsdale.Really is a small world.
One week before I ran into him at the Bar an intruder broke into his home while he was sleeping. He awoke to this guy rummaging through his stuff in an adjacent room to his bedroom. The intruder attacked him with a hunting knife and they were struggling over the knife.
The intruder backed my buddy up to a roll top desk were he kept a loaded 38 in the top draw. He got the gun with one hand while holding this guys hand that he was grasping the knife in while this guy was hitting him about the head with his free hand.
He told me he begged the guy to stop or he would be shot. He wouldn't quit his attack and my friend had no choice but to shot the intruder.
The man died and kept trying to stab my friend right to his very last breath. My buddy was pleading with him to stop struggling so he could get him an ambulance.
This happened back in 81, now even after all these years my friend keeps a dog. A Doberman Pincher. Oh, and he still keeps loaded guns in the house. He doesn't have kids.
Another story where a gun saved a life... When I was a kid I knew a fellow (not a friend) named Danny Littlefield. he broke into a home on the West side in the middle of the night and tied up the couple who resided there.
He took the woman in another room and proceeded to rape her. He over looked the loaded shot gun in the closet and the woman's husband worked his way out of his bindings and retrieved the gun. Danny's attack was interrupted and he was hit with a shot gun blast that blew him right out of a window to the ground outside. DEAD.
Before we became so civilized, people would never even think about doing the things they do today, and the reason why is because someone would shoot their sorry ass and probaly get a pat on the back from the police. Now that we are a politically correct and nice society you are expected by people like Grace to give up your life when someone attacks you.
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