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posted by Bob at Tuesday, January 30, 2007
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SHHHH! While we listen to words of wisdom from a wise man.
Conscience is the light of the Soul that burns within the chambers of our psychological heart. It is as real as life is. It raises the voice in protest whenever anything is thought of or done contrary to the righteousness. Conscience is a form of truth that has been transferred through our genetic stock in the form of the knowledge of our own acts and feelings as right or wrong. A virtuous and courageous person can alone use the instrument of conscience. He or she can alone hear the inner voice of the soul clearly. In a wicked person this faculty is absent. The sensitive nature of his / her conscience has been destroyed by sin or corruption. Hence he or she is unable to discriminate right from wrong. Those who are leading organizations, business enterprises, institutions and governments should develop this virtue of the ability to use their own conscience. This wisdom of using the clean conscience will enable them to enjoy the freedom.
Dr APJ Kalam, President of India given during the inauguration of the seminar on “THE EFFECTS OF CORRUPTION ON GOOD GOVERNANCE AND HUMAN RIGHTS
29 Comments:
13 Q As a director of code enforcement in the city of
14 St. Paul from 2002 to 2005, would you agree that
15 if the department was to enforce every existing
16 code, that many of the owners in the city would
17 not be able to financially comply?
18 MS. SEEBA: Objection, form. Go
19 ahead.
20 A I really don't have any knowledge of that.
21 Q (Continuing by Mr. Shoemaker) Never had any
22 discussion with anyone of any source about
23 concerns that property owners were unable to
24 afford to come into compliance with the new
25 aggressive code enforcement implemented by Mayor
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1 Kelly and yourself?
2 A No. The only way that came up was inside the
3 court system in terms of the amount of criminal
4 misdemeanor charges that the court system could
5 handle and with the Kitchen Cabinet and others
6 to make sure that the property owners got
7 information about where to access resources to
8 get into compliance.
9 Q But if you had all of the inspectors that were
10 under your control during 2002 to 2005 enforce
11 every single code violation that they observed,
12 do you think that it would have any negative
13 affect on the ability of owners to stay in their
14 properties?
15 MS. SEEBA: Objection, form.
16 A Whether it was part of the Kitchen Cabinet
17 discussions or the city council discussions, I
18 don't remember. But I used the example of
19 Baltimore where the aggressive enforcement had
20 tipped the scale so that there was a start of
21 abandonment of properties more than the city had
22 hoped for in Baltimore. And I wanted to make
23 sure everyone understood that using whatever
24 levers or rules or policies the city has, that
25 we need to make sure that we didn't hit a
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1 tipping point.
2 Q (Continuing by Mr. Shoemaker) So you were aware
3 that there were concerns of that nature in at
4 least one other city that had stepped up code
5 enforcement?
6 A That is correct.
7 Q What did you learn was the reason that there
8 would be an increase in abandonment if the code
9 enforcement went by -- or passed the tipping
10 scale point?
11 A All I know is that I read a study that was in a
12 journal about stepped up code enforcement in
13 Baltimore and that it had tipped the scales so
14 that there was more abandonment of properties
15 than the city had thought or wanted to have
16 happen.
17 Q Did you know whether or not that study also
18 talked about low income rental housing in an
19 effect of abandonment of those type of
20 properties as well through that stepped up code
21 enforcement^ CH PUNCT?
22 A No, I don't know that.
23 Q We were talking about the meeting that you had
24 with the PHA inspectors at the White Bear Avenue
I keep hearing that resources were offered to people that needed code compliances. I was never offered any direction as to where I might find a single type of resource other than the purchase offer I recieved through the direction of Magner, guess they forgot to inform me that resources were available. But then their was also the statement of the order from Joel Johnston to code inspectors to write me up beyond my ability to comply. That kind of gave me a feeling that I wasn't suppose to be able to save the house..
Nancy
Now there you go skirting the truth again! What do you think the "offer to purchase" was? That WAS the resource and you turned yur nose up at it and now your are just plain out of luck my dear.
what your selling here is we should put up with neighbors who sell drugs and don't take care of their properties.
From Goetz article- At the height of the public debate in St. Paul, the police chief wrote in a letter to the St. Paul Pioneer Press, the city's major daily newspaper: "I question the motives of the Tenants Union. Do they stand with the honest residents who have called on FORCE and have seen positive results, or with drug dealers who would turn our city into a drug-infested jungle?"
In response, SPTU officials wrote: "We see a problem . . . when under the guise of 'community empowerment,' many low-income tenants and people of color are subject to civil rights violations that result in enormous personal and financial losses as well as the loss of their homes."
Anonymous- Civil Rights mean nothing to these NAZI's.
he police chief is a black man from the south side of Chicago. I think he understands how to weed through discriminatory policies and actions to ID criminals. He beleives the city policy is good and won't be a barrier to doing that.
What makes you slumlords such experts?
This is the old "divide and conquer" strategy, and the city Of St Paul uses it well. Rather than deal with the real problem in an effective way the city causes a distraction by having everyone fighting with each other and pointing fingers. That way the attention doesn't get shifted to the ineffective city leaders and their failed policies that they pursue year after year. The letter from the Police Chief makes it very clear that the city thinks that if you stand up for civil rights and the constitution, you are then standing on the side of the drug dealers. That's a nice way to polarize people! With this type of mentality, the Police and the city leaders that allow this are much more of a threat than the drug dealers themselves.
I also have a problem with the Tenants Union. They seem to be concerned only with the rights of the low income people. We all have rights, and they are gauranteed by the Constitution of the United States.
What most people do not realize or care about is that their rights are only as secure as the rights of the lowest guy on the totem pole. If they can take away the rights from one class of people, then they can take them away from everyone. Is this really what people want? we'll see!!
1:57, we have a different police Chief now. It was Finney back during the time of this Goetz article.
To 12:34
No that is not what is being sold here. What is being sold is a citizenry that puts up with lazy and cowardly city officials who will not enforce the law because they do not want to take the heat of being called predjudice when their actions affect one class of people more than another. They rather choose to hold innocent people responsible for the actions of others.
The results of their laziness is the neighbors who sell drugs and damage their property.
The landlords are the real victims in the poorly thought out scheme. They have had their hands tied behind their backs as the bad tenants have all the rights and the landlords have none with respect to dealing with a lot of the problems the city wants to lay at their door.
The more regulation the city tries to make the worse the problem gets and all you have to do is look at how well these regulatory schemes have worked. the city gets worse every year, not better and the reason is very simple: the city wants to hold everyone but the "right" one responsible for everything under the sun.
With no responsibility comes people who do not care and have nothing to lose. High school kids understand this for the pete sake. Why doesn't the city of St Paul with all thier educated and forward thinking elitist leaders?
Bob speaking for White City Council & Mayor- We aren't racist, we appointed 2 black police chiefs before we attacked low income minorities housing to deconcentrate their numbers.
Bob- Finney, Harrington, do you care at all about the less fortunate of your people?
Setting up a window front shop on Rice street for at Risk Youth is a band aide to a very serious social ill.
Haven't we had enough superficial band aides thrown at youth that are lacking good parenting.
Deconcentrating minorities out of the City is morally wrong. Civil rights are being violated. Blaming innocent people (landlords)for their tenants behavior is wrong.
Putting innocent people out on the street by condemning homes is wrong. Where is the morality of our City leaders?
We put up with neighbors like Dave Thune!
Has anyone every took the time to check out just how many of the worst vacant buildings are owned by the city of St.Paul? Those are some of the ones that have been vacant the longest and are also in the worst, most dangerous of condition.
What makes us such experts 1:57 is the fact that we have been in the neighborhoods cleaning up after this city's failed policies for nearly 20 years now. Meanwhile the poor get poorer, neighborhoods get worse, the criminal activity keeps multipying like like cockaroaches and we continue to get the punishment for things we cannot control.
Clean up St.Paul.
How can we clean up America, from shore to shore.
Mary
bob said, "Blaming innocent people (landlords)for their tenants behavior is wrong."
I am so confused by this statement. Aren't the landlords the ones that decide whom to rent to? Aren't tht landlord utimately responsible for what happens in and around their asset? Shouldn't the landlords be accountable to the community?
To absolve landlords of all blame is laughable, as it is to pin all the blame on them.
Hi 10:14,
I believe in individual responsibility. Someone commits a crime they should be punished. Innocent people should not be punished for others crimes,PERIOD.
Landlords are not social workers!They don't run ads looking for the worst possible tenants.
Now, if I was a landlord and ran an ad that stated- 2 bedroom apartment for rent. Gang bangers, hoes and hookers welcome. Bring your guns, you will need them my other tenants have been screened to ensure they are criminals too.. Then the City would have a case against a landlord that was justifiable.
Making the landlords responsible for the actions of the tenant is just another back door way for the city to discriminate against certain classes of people that they normally would not not otherwise be able to discriminate against.
If there is nothing wrong with what the city is doing why haven't they passed a law saying which certain types of people cannot have hosuing in the city? They can't because it is illegal, and so is their cowardly back door way of doing it.
If the property owner is responsible for what happens in and around his asset, then maybe the homeowners should held responsible for what happens in and around their asset as well!
Where the homeowners think it is the landlord who has ruined the value of their proerty, I think it is the homeowners who have ruined the value of the landlords investment by sitting by day after day and watching these problems develop and they say nothing to the landlord.....all they do is call and make complaints to city leaders who do nothing also except to blame others.
Maybe the landlords should sue all the homwowners as well!
12:12 i agree, and that is what i have been trying to get at, the the problems aren't black and white, but gray. I just find it hard to swallow that people here constantly think landlords have done, will do now wrong. I i have met way too many landlords who bemoan the cost of filing an unlawful detainer (UD) but who refuse to pull background/credit checks on renters.
There are ways to identify problem tenants, but some landlords don't care to do so.
But there is no gray area when it oomes to where to lay the blame at is there? The landlord is made to be responsible either directly or indirectly for every single problem the city and society have ever had, and the city and the neighbors are responsible for nothing, other than maybe some "lip service."
Maybe some landlords do not screen, but have you ever wondered why? They have expenses just like everyone else like mortgage payments, taxes, insurance, etc. and they need to have money coming in to pay those things.
How many professional couples with a family, or even blue collar for that matter that have good jobs, nice cars and personal possessions want to move into and rent on the East Side or Frogtown areas of town.
NONE!!!!!
tFor the most part the only people that call are the people with the problems and the blemished history.
As another subject matter, I knew a landlord who owned his property free and clear and he decided he would leave the place empty for as long as it took to get a good renter and figured if he did not make any money on rents and had to pay expenses out of his pocket that he would make the money back in appreciation on the property.
That's what the neighbors and the city want right?......the problem people gone and now the neighborhood is peaceful right?
WRONG!...what he got for his effort and willingness to lose money to be a "good neighbor" was that some asshome code inspector came out there (probably at the beckoning of Kathy Lantry) and turned his property into a "registered vacant building" which he then had to do a $40,000.00 code complaince on to bring the house up to the modern day building codes like it was built yesterday.
That landlord sold all of his buildings and got out of St. Paul. Now sevral of the houses are vacant and boarded, BUT WAIT......now the city and the neighbors don't like that either!
So just ecactly what is it that they do want in this big gray area of all kinds of problems, poverty, bad behavior and no screening and all the other socials ills that government with all of its resources, hasn't been able to solve since the beginning of time.....PERFECTION? It's not going to happen.
So what you are saying 12:13 is that problem tenants are not entitled to housing in the city?
We all know Lantry's position on ex-felons. You will never be good enough to rent in Saint Paul.
I forget the caretakers name mentioned here, but he had a 5 yeay old felony record. Lantry didn't think the landlord should have rented to him. Oh yeah, thats right hewas black too..
Bunch of ignorant racist lead our City.
I am done here, all you posters are so insufferable that everything is black and white, CITY BAD, LANDLORDS GREAT...trying to engage in conversation is like banging my head on a brick wall.
Engage me not!
If you feel like your banging your head trying to communicate, maybe that is why the city has all kinds of Federal Lawsuits against it. There is no more grey area left in St. Paul, which means no room to talk or compromise on anything. When the city has the position that the landlord is all bad, what do you expect from landlords other than a position of the landlord is all good. The 2 sides are so polarized they can't even engage in a discussion any longer, and this didn't happen over night. It's been in the making for years with newspaper stories about properlem properties, a deputy Police Chief making public staements that they city doesn't need these "criminal landlords" and the city council itself waging a war against property owners, and of course the "tenant equation" of the problem is never ever mentioned by anyone. Why do you think that is?
4:40, I think edemocracy would be a good fit for you if you like agreeable conversation. The world is full of peace and love over there. You will get plenty of it as long as you agree to agree with them. Of course the fact that this is a property righs, civil rights kinda forum should put your anxiety to rest that it's not you it's just we here that likes our rights.
Some here are outspoken and some blatant or adament about it. It depends on how you look at it.
If you are a complaining neighbor and disagree with everything said here, I don't even know why you would want to waste your time and become so aggravated about it all. Just go along and believe what you want and don't try to force feed here.
You damn right we are adamant about it. We have rights under the Constitution of The United States that people died for and I have no intention of ever giving them up for the likes of the people sitting on this City Council, or anyone else for that matter.
I find this debate rather interesting! I would like to put my 2 cents in, for what it's worth.
I see this issue from several perspectives:
As a former landlord; Believe me, credit and background checks are not fail proof. Some of the worst tenants I've had passed credit, employment, and background checks. And some of the best tenants I've rented to had low FICO scores, along with judgements and unlawful detainers.
The rising cost of property taxes and commercial insurance policies, combined with the "refi and/or real estate boom" which ended recently, have contributed to many of the problems landlords are experiencing.
As a former mortgage underwriter: When interest rates dropped to historical lows in 2001, many renters were able to purchase real estate.
At the same time, many homeowners living in "starter" homes, were able to take cash out of their primary residence and use it to purchase nicer homes, and retain their previous home as an investment property...thinking they could simply...rent it out.
The unintended consequence is this: We ended up with more rental properties than existed in 2001, and fewer renters!
Now, we have landlords scrambling to fill their vacancies in order to make the mortgage payment!
What the city fails to acknowledge is that when we rent to people, we cannot predict their behavior. Once we realize the tenant is a problem, it takes a very long time to remove the tenant, legally, which can be quite costly for the landlord.
As part of a research project, I did surveys on the east side and most of the participants were tenants. My findings? The system is equally rigged against both the tenant and the landlord.
The so called "American Dream Initiative" is a complete joke.
When I have more time I will return and explain exactly why it is a joke, and how it is rigged against the very people it "seemingly" was designed to help!
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