DIVAS VICTIM OF HOODLUMS AND CITY
Hi All,
I also posted this at "Saint Paul Issues and Forums', you can find their link below my profile to the right of the screen.
Divas has security. Divas has refused to serve unruly customers. Divas has
cooperated with the City in trying to keep an orderly house. The shooting was
outside the bar. The shooter wasn't a patron of the bar. Divas does not run ads
looking for troubled customers. No business wants trouble from hoodlums, and
the CITY!<(if you get trouble from hoodlums, the City isn't far behind to
attack your business too)! They want the neighbors to believe the business is
the problem not their inability to address social ills. Last I heard the police
were charged with the duty to "Protect and Serve".
The security companies in this City are thriving. All this responsibility of
policing being shrugged off on the average citizen. And demonizing hard working
business men and women as if they share in the responsibility of the socials
ills that fall upon their door step.
How is the average citizen to bare the burden of the bad parenting of others?
Instead of taking responsibility of social ills, the City and police have
discovered away to relieve the heat of public perceptions of their short
comings to deter crime. BLAME OTHERS!
There are people who would like others to believe this is just whining and
the Property Rights Advocates are just whiners. Folks we have over a long
period of time tried resolving issues with the City. The arrogance is
appalling. Protest and blunt dialog has been a last resort. We are looking
for bold leadership!
I also posted this at "Saint Paul Issues and Forums', you can find their link below my profile to the right of the screen.
Divas has security. Divas has refused to serve unruly customers. Divas has
cooperated with the City in trying to keep an orderly house. The shooting was
outside the bar. The shooter wasn't a patron of the bar. Divas does not run ads
looking for troubled customers. No business wants trouble from hoodlums, and
the CITY!<(if you get trouble from hoodlums, the City isn't far behind to
attack your business too)! They want the neighbors to believe the business is
the problem not their inability to address social ills. Last I heard the police
were charged with the duty to "Protect and Serve".
The security companies in this City are thriving. All this responsibility of
policing being shrugged off on the average citizen. And demonizing hard working
business men and women as if they share in the responsibility of the socials
ills that fall upon their door step.
How is the average citizen to bare the burden of the bad parenting of others?
Instead of taking responsibility of social ills, the City and police have
discovered away to relieve the heat of public perceptions of their short
comings to deter crime. BLAME OTHERS!
There are people who would like others to believe this is just whining and
the Property Rights Advocates are just whiners. Folks we have over a long
period of time tried resolving issues with the City. The arrogance is
appalling. Protest and blunt dialog has been a last resort. We are looking
for bold leadership!
posted by Bob at Monday, November 20, 2006
29 Comments:
Posted 20 Nov 2006 14:11 by Eric Mitchell
Bob,
I know this place well enough. I played softball for it when it was
Vanelli's. There were not these problems there until Deb's 'friend' purchaed
the place for her. I was there for the weeks of the transition and it was a
short time before calls to the police about lewdness began. I was there a
couple of times and witnessed the almost instant change in atmosphere. The boys
decided to find another sponser for softball and stopped going there all
together.
The arguement that its a victim of the environment doesn't wash because when
Vanelli was running it, this wasn't the case. There are three other bars within
a two block area that seem to understand how to avoid this kind of problem.
From the moment Deb took over, it became a neighborhood problem and major
safety concern.
Eric Mitchell
Payne Phalen
2:46 PM
Bob- Posted to Saint Paul Issues and Forums and copied here for a response.
And Eric Mitchell is just another government brown noser who thinks that the city can do no wrong. How about the same attitude toward the problems at the Wellstone Center? How about the same attitude toward the schools that not only have a lot of Police calls, but they are such a problem that there has to be a "Police presence" there when school is in session? How about the crime that is happening in Parks and on the Playgrounds? Should we close them up also? Or do you really mean to say that is OK to treat one part of society different than another part depending on how "connected" they are? What's good for the goose is good for the gander Eric. I'll be waiting for your response.
Erik, I lived in this neighborhood at 110 Lyton Place for a number of years.
I also was a patron of Vanelli's. For the most part there was a bunch of elderly people nursing drinks and soft tipping the bar tender. That's why they folded.
Deb Johnson is catering to a younger crowd. There is modern music in the juke box now. This is her right to improve her profit margin. One or two bad apples does not spoil the whole bunch.
It is not ethical or moral to shift responsibility of policing onto the ordinary citizen, Then to take it a step further and to try and hold innocent people accountable for the action of others. WOW! Beam me up Scotty!
Ya know, when Bob hits em with these stories, it seems the biggest defenders of City hall have the most to lose.What do you have to gain or lose Erik? Did DIVAS support that ball team of yours at all?
So Erik, did Deb commit these crimes you speak of?
Did Deb willing attract people with behavior problems to the bar?
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Punish criminals not innocent people.
Chuck Repke states from the security of SPIF-
Posted 20 Nov 2006 14:54 by Chuck Repke
Nice post Bob - take the people that are avoiding responsibility (the
property owners) and claim that it is the rest of the public (tax payers) who
are the "responsible" people and should have to pay for the problems of the
property owners. You're pretty good at this. Have you ever written for a
political campaign?
I love it. The perpetrator becomes the victim and the victims (the citizens of
Saint Paul) become the perpetrators. Pretty soon you'll be saying we ought
to hang a mettle on the shooter for bringing this injustice to the forefront.
Don't arrest that kid! He brought the evilness of city government to the
attention of the public! We owe him a debt of gratitude. FREE THE DIVA
SHOOTER!!
lol
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck Repke- Nice post Bob - take the people that are avoiding responsibility (the
property owners) and claim that it is the rest of the public (tax payers) who
are the "responsible" people and should have to pay for the problems of the
property owners.
Bob- NO Chuck, Deb Johnson did not shoot anybody. You and a handful of other entrenched bureaucrats would like others to believe that some how Deb Johnson is this shooters accomplice. Friends or something. And therefore she shares responsibility in this persons crime who wasn't even a patron of the bar. What really confuses me is that there is, and has been people stupid enough to believe this shit. And you know why, because we are taught to believe in our government from the time we are young. And this given trust has allowed some not so nice people in City government to shrug off the responsibility of social ills.
Chuck, you are aiding and abiding civil rights violations perpetuating this scheme to stay in power and shrug policing responsibilities onto ordinary citizens.
Doesn't Diva's pay property taxes which a portion goes to policing.Isn't she entitled to police calls.And aren't the customers tax payers too?Don't they have a right to call police?
And last but not least isn't Chuck Repke just plain dumb?And good job Chuck after 8 months or so you finially removed the inoperable burned up car out of your driveway.You are the poster child to a good neighbor.
Chuck was a campaign manger for the DEMO-RATS. The GOP should have hired Bob along time ago. About 30 years ago.
One last thing,,, 3 cheers for the Watchdog!
And Repke's sign off should read JMOAAAWAO: Just My Own Assanine Arrogant and Wrong Again Opinion.
Hi All, this was in my email and I couldn't find the comment here. So here it is!
"wblakesx" anonymous-comment@blogger.com
To: rbljohnson@yahoo.com
Subject: [ademocracy] 11/20/2006 10:03:04 PM
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:03:06 -0800 (PST)
This is not a local problem. It all started with the 'broken windows" theorey of 'law ' enforcement coming out of Harvard in the '70's, which was based upon an Italian designer who got a contract to maintain bus stops in NYC.
Upon the drop in Federal income federal funds to the cities began to dry up, that and cities' increasing corruption as college gratuates felt entitled to fat wallets, caused cash shortages. (
And then others immitated those who appeared to have higher status , cf Toynbee and mimesis, the decline of civilizations. )
At one time there was a finely balanced system that would allow for private poker games etc, as long as no one complained, as long as there was no ruckus, law enforcement respected the privacy of individuals. The drug wars made major inroads on the right to private enjoyment and broken widows convergence has created a situation where law enforcement pushed it's efforts right up to the line of constitutionality, and then stepped over it. Agencies were 'captured' by powerful constituancies. Now we have Bush's flat out flouting of USA values and the Constitution. Where will it end ? For a start with the Constitution shattered; the social contract will fail and citizens will abandon the social contract that has been broken so foolishly by the government and our myopic Sally Twoshoes, the brown nosers, yes men.
In response the gov wil step up it's powers and number of ENFORCERS ( a Mob term most apt to the bully boys ). Not every human is tempermentally or socially suited to brown nosing and the brown nosers, noting their own shallow cowerdice will loathe those who are not of the same disposition. Society will fail, the USA will fail as a society of law, raw power will be the operative principle. Magna Carta, gone; habeas corpus , gone ( and Reaguns Iran Contra is exactly the same as king James I end run around Parlement's sole discretion in raising revenue... the cause of the English civil war which had such an impact upon the foundation of the USA )
The Republican party has been corrupted by elements from the once slave society of the South who have a lust for high unemployment and serfdom. Remember the issues of the Spanish civil war, the GOD people against the Cattle people.
Z Code enforcement is in a unique position. If I do something you might judge as wrong in Your house, in public, on corp property the situation is one of conflict of will, but when I retreat from the evils of the world to my HOME, there should be no invasion unless I am doing something that is potentially or actually Seriously harmful to someone else, ; and the state should have to Prove that I am so doing. Those who value a pretty lawn over my rights are amoung the most contemptable frauds the poser's of humanity, they are ignorant wastlings who lack the courage to be other than conformists, they destroy man.
ANd mostly, they poeple under attack Would love pretty houses. respectable work or would otherwise conform to get along. Mostly they don't because they are poor or ill, ie Easy Pickins.
If you want them to 'beautify your neighborhoos' then Help them! Fer Christ sakes don't Destroy their lives, their children will rightfully avenge them upon the country.
This is a National Problem and should be addressed as such, the word should go forth and people should organise! Nationally! Else the Boston Tea Party and the USA revolution are Meaningless vanities.
Don't just sit there and go tit tit, tut tut. Get it together even you lazy over paid workers at immoral jobs and professions; Mere Hirelings with no real morality, opportunists, lickspittle. There has always been corruption in the USA as in all rapidly developing countries ( take the money and run ), but you 'ain't seen nothing yet'. Americans ? more like crawling snakes. Despicable. Don't ask 'why' you are assaulted. ask 'Why Not'
--
Posted by wblakesx to ademocracy at 11/20/2006
Listen losers,
I didn't post here (I know how to spell my name), its apparent that the agenda here is to elevate property to the level of personhood and anyone questioning bad property management or, property owners will be met with an onslaught of misspelled accustions and insults that are homicidal to American grammar and logic.
I'm not old, white or a 'protector' of the Bureaucracy as indicated in Bob Johnson's public response to me. Diva's DID in fact support the softball team. Personally, Deb Johnson is very nice and more engaging than Roger was. The music was better. The management overall was horrible.
She had every right in the world to change whatever she thought she needed, within the law, to make money. There comes responsibility with that. Rice street has had bars that cater to a younger hip hop crowd before. Some changed and others shut down (Club Cancun), others barely get by.
One or two bad apples indeed do not spoil the bunch but, you have to get a grip on the few before it detroys the bunch and kill your bottom line. She failed to do that. Now, those who hang around the bar (because they were refused entry) become a danger to the neighbors.
I don't run a bar, I don't have an answer for Deb. I do know that Diva's has been a problem from the beginning and that was before the hip hop. Check out the police records. Since the problems started before the hip hop phase and the only difference was the change of ownership, then its pretty clearly a management issue and these latest problems are just the next thing when you have shoddy management.
Your Blog Hero's first response to my email was:
---- Original Message ----
From: Bob Johnson
To: Eric Mitchell
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:21:45 PM
Subject: Re: [SPIF] Divas is a Victim of Hoodlums and City
I know Erik, Here is how Deb can keep the niggers out. Play country music.
-----------------------
Looks like 'Anonymous' would agree with you Bob.
All,
AS MOST OF YOU KNOW MY FAMILY IS BLACK! I made this statement to Erik because bottom line that is the talk from some City officials.I was roughly stressing a point.Like many black families do!
My statement to Erik- "I know Erik, Here is how Deb can keep the niggers out. Play country music".Erik knows what my intention was. Black people amongst themselves use this kind of hyperbaly often to explain their situation concerning bigotry.
What Erik didn't tell you is he threatened me physically. What a blithering idiot. I'd clean your clocks chump!
This fool thinks I'm George Orwell.
Sorry Goofy, I weigh 200lbs. and can bench 300Lb.
One last thing, I spoke with the recent customers of DIVAs. I spoke with management. Your a LIAR!
Bob we're in the same weight class and apparent strength, anytime. Pick a street or a gym. You won't because like I said, everybody is a tough guy on the internet. You were informed that if you use that language in my presence, you'll regret it. You will.
I know who George Orwell is and enjoy his work. You're no Orwell.
Diva's can tell you what you want, but the calls about prostitution and women exposing themselves began within two weeks of Deb and her partners taking over. Check with the cops- oh yeah you can't, they're against you too.
I didn't give you permission to lift my comments and post them here, but since you apparently have to do things to get people to comment, I'm here to be clear about what I said, seen and know.
Your comment about how us black people talk among ourselves is perplexing as you're not one. So whenever you're around- they are not among themselves. Since we know there are bad black people and good folks who go to work and play by the rules everyday, we tend not to lump us all together and make derogatory comments on top of racially insulting ones. Maybe its not the race of people you hang around but, the class of people if they use that type of language to describe themselves.
One more thing dipshit, the name is spelled E-R-I-C! I'm not a Scandinavian.
ERIK- Bob we're in the same weight class and apparent strength, anytime. Pick a street or a gym. You won't because like I said, everybody is a tough guy on the internet. You were informed that if you use that language in my presence, you'll regret it.
Now ERIK, tell the folks, in private emails didn't I say "I'd feel real bad if I hurt you"? "Didn't I say I'd rather be beat up"?
ERIK, this is silly.
Erik- I know who George Orwell is and enjoy his work. You're no Orwell.
NO, you thought the image I post of myself was ORWELL. That's funny.
ERIK- Diva's can tell you what you want, but the calls about prostitution and women exposing themselves began within two weeks of Deb and her partners taking over.
BOB- The police should have done something about that. That's what our tax dollars is for. Someone other than an innocent person should be held accountable.
ERIK
I didn't give you permission to lift my comments and post them here, but since you apparently have to do things to get people to comment, I'm here to be clear about what I said, seen and know.
Bob- I don't need your permission, you commented publicly. You were addressing me . TO BAD.
ERIK- Your comment about how us black people talk among ourselves is perplexing as you're not one. So whenever you're around- they are not among themselves. Since we know there are bad black people and good folks who go to work and play by the rules everyday, we tend not to lump us all together and make derogatory comments on top of racially insulting ones.
Bob- Your bigotry shows ERIK, you think your better then those poor black folks who have been put out of their affordable housing. Once again your a liar. You want us to believe your family has never used explicit language. YEAH, look at your mouth here.
ERIK- Maybe its not the race of people you hang around but, the class of people if they use that type of language to describe themselves.
Bob- ERIK, they weren't using that language to describe themselves! They use it to describe a perception of how they perceive other views of them. YOU REALLY DIDN"T GET IT DID YOU?
ERIK-One more thing dipshit, the name is spelled E-R-I-C! I'm not a Scandinavian.
Certainly if you can call me dipshit (An extremely white boy sayin) I can call you ERIK. ERIK TELLS ME HE'S BLACK.
Take a breath, settle down, think about your next post. Have a nice day! Bob
Convenietnly all posters here ignore the fact that there are repeated liqour liscense violations at Diva's. Who's fault is that?
Bob-I think we should get back to contruction here and turn away from the destruction and condemnation of those who want to harrass and take the light away from the reality and actuality. Don't fall into their trap. They use words that they've been given by the shallowness of their souls. Today it's Divas and tomorrow it will be that convenient store owned by an underclass by their opinion. Most "Eriks" out there work for others and in doing so have never learned how to gather their own opinions, thoughts or ideas and in other words they are thoughtless and without wisdom, forethought and resilience and it is they that would starve and die if all hell broke loose. The gov is not going to race in and save you! So what are you trying to save here?
"The city is going after Diva's because they cater to a mostly black crowd that is young and threatening to others. The city knows that these people are not politically saavy enough to stand against them." - that appears to be what Bob meant to portray when he used the line "I know Erik, Here is how Deb can keep the niggers out. Play country music."
Doesn't wash with me, at all.
---
I was unaware that "dipshit" is an 'white boy' saying. So, you got a list of words that are for whites and those that are for blacks? How about 'jive turkey'- is that still around? I know, I know, you're not a racist.
You question whether I'm black or not. I don't know why it matters but e-mail anyone from SPIF you want (Chuck, Renee, Tim, etc), you'll see, I'm black.
Black and from the Southside of Chicago (born and raised) now living on the Eastside, so can the class crap. Your vision of blacks is being challenged and you can't comprehend it. We all don't call ourselves niggers, let alone condone others to do the same.
------
You need to figure yourself out and stop thinking you know everything about other people. Much like Kramer, you got caught.
What's strange is that if you didn't know I was black, why the hell would you send someone an email like that? You assume that all white people are ok with referring to blacks as niggers?
All these people hiding behind anonymous.
Eric is self employed.
Eric has taken on the city (and lost). Eric does not trust the government to do shit right, hence citizen oversight which I support at every level.
Eric is speaking of Diva's from a subjective veiwpoint, not the overall issue of problem property condemation and what to do as a city. I know what I saw, experienced and heard.
Using this case as an example of the zeal of the city to take property is not my fight and in my opinion not appropriate for this particular case. As stated above- what about the numerous liquour violations? That has to do with management- or at least, employees.
It's Eric, Eric, Eric, Eric.
What's with all the whining? Woe, I have the moaning drone of whimpering on one hand and beastly wails on the other. Would this eric, whoever, get off the air wave or at least quit crying boo hoo hoo. It's constricting my jive time and doesn't righteously fly with the subject.
Clever. Point taken, I'm done.
Eric why do you waste your time with this trash? It's fun to watch but really. Have you ever seen a more misguided-blame anyone but yourself group of people?
Martin Owings says...
I know Eric, he's black, we've had our own differences in the past, but in my opinion Bob is out of line here.
Eric will stand up to the city and has an interest in fighting for the community (regardless of color) from my experiences. He is connected to the Democratic Party via his job and I believe does have a strong interest in seeing the Eastside improve.
He's human, has a tendancy to embrace, or at the very least not try too hard to avoid, conflict. That can be exciting in the short term (makes good reading and press) but also leads to mis-judgements and resentment. In orther words I wouldn't say his strong suit is building partnerships with those who have differing views.
Bob I think you owe Eric a public apology and not a fist fight. What we need less of in this city is divisive dialog and people interested in turning everything into an issue of race. On that I hope we can all agree.
There seems to be a lot of passion around these issues and maybe we should start a meaningful dialog.
Eric will standf up to the city and fight for the community huh? Where the hell has he been on the property rights issue and his fellow blacks getting tossed out of their homes and onto the street? It sound to me like he's just another asshole that will never do anythign unkless it benifets him personally.
The word "stand" and "anything" were spelled worng on purpose so Eric would be able to read it and understand.
Hi Eric,
I regret using the terminology I used to express a point with you Eric. It was wrong.
I really did think you were an old white guy. I was trying to see if I could play on what I thought maybe prejiduces you had concerning the bar since you were so adamantly defending the actions against Divas.
A lot of the talk at Divas is this is a racist thing over a class of people that patronize Divas after 10:00.
I welcome you to this blog Eric. As you see there is no censorship here. Messages do not disappear even if they embarrass me.People can be made to be responsible for what they say without moderation or censorship. :-)
Hope you and your family are enjoying this evening!
Bob
Thanks Bob. I appreciate it. What is frustrating here is that two people know me on here and yet seven have assigned motives and outlined my whole career and they don't know shit.
That last character who thinks I do this volunteer shit to benefit myself is yet another bomb throwing chickenshit hiding on the internet.
A protest and an anonymous post on the 'net does not make one some revolutionary for property rights. Someone that's not you is out there fighting to keep Section 8 solvent for the poor, lobbying against higher taxes on rental units, pushing for rental refunds, supporting ordinance for equal enforcement and etc. I don't see any of you tough guys doing that.
And, let talk about the poor. Aside from having a right to a place to live, they also have a right to live in dignity. Where are all of you when your fellow landlords are allowing people to live in deteriorating units not fit for animals? Because one is poor does not make them less human. Running hot and cold water, working heating units, pest control and safe stairways and balconies are part of that dignity. When there are blatent violations- I see nothing coming from property advocates.
So, what do you do, besides fright the good fight in anonymity?
Hi Eric & All,
Thank you Eric!
Eric- What is frustrating here is that two people know me on here and yet seven have assigned motives and outlined my whole career and they don't know shit.
Bob- After thousands of dollars of investigative research, there is reasons to be suspicious of people and their relationship to the City.
I know nothing about you personally Eric. I won't repeat my assumptions of who I thought you were.I haven't even done a googles or checked your profile at SPIF. I'll probably do that googles now. you have my attention. :-)
Eric- A protest and an anonymous post on the 'net does not make one some revolutionary for property rights. Someone that's not you is out there fighting to keep Section 8 solvent for the poor, lobbying against higher taxes on rental units, pushing for rental refunds, supporting ordinance for equal enforcement and etc. I don't see any of you tough guys doing that.
Bob- I can only speak for myself. Prior to last December when I joined the movement in property rights here locally, I was a volunteer of the GOP on a national level. I am a registered Libertarian. Eric, property rights advocates have tried working these issues out with the City. Protest are a last resort.
Here is the problem. I and many including Trooien recognizes this. People get involved in their lives and don't have interest or time for "civic responsibility". A few like yourself who are involved responsibly in local politics make the decisions for the majority.
The political arena will be changing soon in this City as I and others like me, gain community involvement through things like the T.V. shows we are producing, the Watchdog News, this blog, and we are heavily considering starting a forum similar to SPIF, attracting blue collar citizens of the City.
Politics, I'm not looking for a Democrat, a Republican or any other name someone wants to declare themselves. I'm looking for leadership, and I think were lacking that now without a crime strategy.Making innocent people responsible for other peoples lack of good parenting.
I look at your fine list of things I could volunteer for Eric. Only I do not have time for them, and focus on getting people involved in the decision making process in the City.
I am part of a media movement to get people involved, isn't that a worthy cause? Our group who represent these people here who enjoy the security of this blog anonymously do not hide. We encourage dialog. We'll face anyone with our concerns. I don't force people to agree with me. It's not possible. I've made many post publicly about civic responsibility.
Eric- Where are all of you when your fellow landlords are allowing people to live in deteriorating units not fit for animals? Because one is poor does not make them less human. Running hot and cold water, working heating units, pest control and safe stairways and balconies are part of that dignity. When there are blatant violations- I see nothing coming from property advocates.
Bob- I haven't worked for rental property investors for years, but when I did, I never seen any extreme cases of housing. The Governors Mansion is the worse building I seen the interior of that people were expected to live in.
Welcome aboard Eric!
P.S. I can't post anonymous here. You won't be able to either Eric. People here get to know your personality and it shows in writing.
Anonymity isn't a vail from public humiliation.I've seen an anonymous person who I do not know humiliated here over a long thread of dialog. Funny how even a thread of words can be made responsible for what is said! :-)
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