Helgen Misguiding Public to Gain Votes at The Expense of Innocent People.
Hi All,
I reprinted this from SPIF. You can find a link to "Saint Paul Issues and Forums" to the right of the screen below my profile.
Posted 16 Nov 2006 16:58 by Michael Mischke
The citizens of St. Paul sleep safer tonight. The City Council has
unanimously approved stiffer penalties for licensed businesses where
someone is seriously injured or killed in the course of committing a
crime on or near the premises. The stiffer sanctions were introduced
by City Council member Lee Helgen, whose Ward 5 includes Diva’s
Overtime Lounge, 1141 Rice St. Diva’s was the scene of a fatal
shooting in July and another shooting on November 11 when a man was
seriously injured outside the club.
Under the newly adopted penalties, all licensed businesses in the city
—including bars and restaurants, gas stations and convenience stores—
will have their licenses suspended and be forced to close for 30 days
after an incident that results in death or serious injury. After a
second incident, the licenses will be suspended and the businesses
will be forced to close for 60 days. After a third incident, the
licenses will be revoked and the businesses will be forced to close
for good.
I guess in St. Paul it’s “three-strikes-and- you’re-out” even when
you weren’t the one wielding the bloody bat.
The stiffer penalties passed by the City Council had the support of
Mayor Chris Coleman and Police Chief John Harrington. The Minnesota
Licensed Beverage Association and the St. Paul Hospitality
Association, two trade groups whose members you might assume would
have an opinion on the matter, took no position, and no one testified
against the ordinance at a public hearing.
Helgen introduced the ordinance after the City Council voted 4-2 in
October to reduce the recommended penalties imposed on Arnellia’s
nightclub, 1183 University Ave. City licensing staff and the City
Attorney’s Office had suggested that Arnellia’s licenses be suspended
for 60 days in response to a fatal shooting that occurred there in
February 2004. But the council reduced the penalties to a $1,500 fine
and a 10-day suspension, then waived everything but $500 of the fine
if there are no similar incidents at Arnellia’s in the next six months.
Although he acknowledged the steps that Arnellia’s has taken to
improve security since the shooting, Helgen said that reducing the
penalties “sent the wrong message.”
The right message that the City Council apparently wants to send now
is that licensed businesses in St. Paul and the law-abiding people
they employ should suffer more severe consequences for the illegal
actions of those who happen to patronize those establishments.
That ought to drop St. Paul a few notches below the 81st most
dangerous city in the nation, don’t you think?
Michael Mischke
Summit Hill
I reprinted this from SPIF. You can find a link to "Saint Paul Issues and Forums" to the right of the screen below my profile.
Posted 16 Nov 2006 16:58 by Michael Mischke
The citizens of St. Paul sleep safer tonight. The City Council has
unanimously approved stiffer penalties for licensed businesses where
someone is seriously injured or killed in the course of committing a
crime on or near the premises. The stiffer sanctions were introduced
by City Council member Lee Helgen, whose Ward 5 includes Diva’s
Overtime Lounge, 1141 Rice St. Diva’s was the scene of a fatal
shooting in July and another shooting on November 11 when a man was
seriously injured outside the club.
Under the newly adopted penalties, all licensed businesses in the city
—including bars and restaurants, gas stations and convenience stores—
will have their licenses suspended and be forced to close for 30 days
after an incident that results in death or serious injury. After a
second incident, the licenses will be suspended and the businesses
will be forced to close for 60 days. After a third incident, the
licenses will be revoked and the businesses will be forced to close
for good.
I guess in St. Paul it’s “three-strikes-and- you’re-out” even when
you weren’t the one wielding the bloody bat.
The stiffer penalties passed by the City Council had the support of
Mayor Chris Coleman and Police Chief John Harrington. The Minnesota
Licensed Beverage Association and the St. Paul Hospitality
Association, two trade groups whose members you might assume would
have an opinion on the matter, took no position, and no one testified
against the ordinance at a public hearing.
Helgen introduced the ordinance after the City Council voted 4-2 in
October to reduce the recommended penalties imposed on Arnellia’s
nightclub, 1183 University Ave. City licensing staff and the City
Attorney’s Office had suggested that Arnellia’s licenses be suspended
for 60 days in response to a fatal shooting that occurred there in
February 2004. But the council reduced the penalties to a $1,500 fine
and a 10-day suspension, then waived everything but $500 of the fine
if there are no similar incidents at Arnellia’s in the next six months.
Although he acknowledged the steps that Arnellia’s has taken to
improve security since the shooting, Helgen said that reducing the
penalties “sent the wrong message.”
The right message that the City Council apparently wants to send now
is that licensed businesses in St. Paul and the law-abiding people
they employ should suffer more severe consequences for the illegal
actions of those who happen to patronize those establishments.
That ought to drop St. Paul a few notches below the 81st most
dangerous city in the nation, don’t you think?
Michael Mischke
Summit Hill
posted by Bob at Thursday, November 16, 2006
8 Comments:
Hi All, I posted this under Mikes post at SPIF.
Posted 16 Nov 2006 22:29 by Bob Johnson
Hi All,
This has been a hot topic at http://www.ademocracy.blogspot.com/ for a number
of days now. It seems a lot of people are coming around to the realization that
punishing innocent people for others crimes isn't a good idea.Makes people real
angry at the City! They pass these experiences on from generation to
generation, and the City is made to look like a bunch of crooks.
First the City demonizes the business as if they share in the responsibility of
the crimes these people commit. Then they sit back like they are some kind of
Hero for doing something to keep the neighborhood safe.May win some votes
from a uneducated public.
Here is an interesting concept "Individual Responsibility"! Arrest, prosecute
and convict the perps and public safety will be addressed without victimizing
innocent people.
Beat up on businesses to gain votes started about 30 years ago, with the porn
book shops. Then it was the Head Shops. Then it was Massage Parlours. Then it
was Gun Shops. Then it was the Corner Convenience Store. Then it was the
Landlords. We can't forget about the Bars. Do any of you really think a bar
owner wants trouble in his bar? NO, they don't!
Here is the kind of Bar Lee could go after and win votes. "GUNSLINGER LOUIES
BAR" Gang Bangers Welcome! Don't forget to bring your gun. The bigger the
better. We play your latest player hater Jams And after every song we have a
bar brawl. And dig this, for every drug dealer and muggers protection we do not
have lighting in our parking lot no security system and girl bouncers. So all
you unsavory types now have a place to go.So come on in and have some fun!
We really need to replace anyone on the City Counsel who doesn't believe in
individual responsibility.top
Help! the city of St. Paul has stolen my livlihood from me. They wiped me out financially! Help police!!! Shut them down, there are victims all over the place because of their actions!!! Stop the bleeding!
The people that are running the city of St. Paul are fools. The only reason we have any type of orderly society is because of personal responsibility. People don't do certain things because there are consequences for your actions. People pay their bills because there are consequences if you don't. In St. Paul there are no consequences for anything unless you happen to be law abiding and have some money they can extort from you in the form of a fine.
This City Council and Mayor have no leadership ability whatsoever. Their idea of leadership is spending a lot of money and holding innocent people repsonsible for everything that goes wrong in the city. Let them pass all the regulations they want to, but the problem is only going to get worse....just like it has year after year. And the worse it gets, the more innocent victims the city will have to find to hold responsible for it. Quite honestly, I'm really suprised that the people of St. Paul would accept this type of leadership. I thought they were a lot smarter. It doesn't take a real bright bulb to realize that fact that if people are engaging in a behavior that is unacceptable, and now you create something that makes them less repsonsible for that behavior, or in the case if the city of St. Paul, not responsible at all, then what you are going to get is MORE of that that type of behavior. Pretty soon they will be putting the landlords, store owners and other business people in jail instead of the people doing the criminal acts.
This is just another liberal knee jerk deal like gun control...hold something...anything but the real problem at fault. It's getting to the point where you can't stand to even hear about it any longer.
Could it be that we have city leaders who cannot recognize the real problem and come with an efective soloution? Like maybe locking people up in jail for criminal their actions?
So much bemoaning about individual responsibility. What about the individual resonsibility of the bar owner to maintain a safe bar and to not violate liquor violations?
To 11:41- We all want an orderly house! At home and in our businesses.
The real problem is unaddressed social ills that fall upon our door steps.
Is it my fault, your fault or Deb Johnsons fault that we have people in our society who seek to harm others?
Why should I, you or Deb Johnson assume the responsibility for these people?
Unfortunately, our elected officials are responsible for these people who wish to harm us. Thats what we elect them for. Closing Divas, or any other Business will not address the social ills of our neighborhoods.
The city of St. Paul is responsible. It is the liberal element that rules St. Paul that made the policies that invited all these low life thugs and their guns to this city, and now when things are getting out of control they want to make it look like it is not only the landlords fault, but now the business owners too? Who's next?
Reality is, if you were to look at the records of the offenders that are incarcerated and check to see where they are from you will see that over 50% are from Chicago, and many from Gary, Indiana. There is a reason that Minn. attracts many of the lower class, undereducated class. If you compare the welfare benefits here compared to other cities you will find it as one attraction, then Mn. tends to have more lenient sentencing practices along with believe it or not police and jails that treat the offenders nice compared to other cities. So if your a criminal Mn. is a great place to commit crimes, everyone around the actual criminal gets more punishment then the actual offender. Just don't forget to shovel that snow or mow your lawn cause Mn will lock you up for serious crimes of that type.....Mn welfare programs need to focus more on vocational and educational rather than the handouts we are known for, without change there will be no change just conditions that worsen over time.
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