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posted by Bob at Saturday, March 07, 2009
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101 Comments:
Here is the original story.
All of 60 named are black; cops say they're reaching out
Associated Press
Article Last Updated: 08/17/2008 11:35:52 PM CDT
St. Paul police are keeping a close eye on 60 men considered responsible for most gang-related violence in the state's capital city.
The list has been dubbed "Bob," for Baddest Of the Bunch. The cops behind it are armed with a $400,000federal grant, and have allied themselves with a group of crime-fighting ministers to help the young men get off the street.
But the initiative is controversial within the city's black community. All 60 people on the list are black.
The alleged gang members range in age from 15 to 27. They landed on the list because of extensive criminal records or because they've been linked to violent crimes of which they were never convicted. Police said all belong to one of two rival gangs — the East Side Boys or the Selby Siders.
Now that the list has been drafted, Sgt. Trish Englund said, St. Paul police will be reaching out to the people on it.
"In essence, what we're going to do is bring everyone to the table and say, 'We've identified you, and we're going to give you two paths to go down,' " Englund said. " 'We would prefer you to take this path, where we have some resources in place for you to use, and people who genuinely want to help you and change your lifestyle. Or you're going to go down this path, where we're going to target you, and it's going to be one where you'll end up in jail, and possibly in jail for a very long time.' "
Englund, a homicide detective who is coordinating the program, said gang activity has risen dramatically in St. Paul. Over the past four years, the Selby Siders alone have been associated with eight homicides and nearly 100 drive-by shootings and similar assaults. The warfare between the two gangs came to a head last year on a Metro Transit bus, where a 16-year-old was shot to death.
But some people don't think the get-tough approach will work. The head of the St. Paul branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, Nathaniel Khaliq, said he'd rather see the money and energy go into programs that prevent kids from getting into trouble in the first place.
Khaliq also said he wished his group and others had been involved in developing the program from the start, rather than being asked by police to show their support just before the launch.
"We see it as a selective prosecution of individuals," Khaliq said. "You already have them on the list, and you're just waiting for them to trip, and then you move on them."
Khaliq said police frequently target African-American men while overlooking trouble in other communities. For instance, he noted, a group of boys accused of a recent baseball-bat attack at Lake Phalen were Asian.
"It is an opportunity if it's framed right," he said. "I certainly don't want to be part of an effort that gives the parents, nor these young men, false expectations that we have a safety net there."
Police said the program would make sure a safety net is there. The Rev. Darryl Spence said he's found about 25 nonprofit groups that want to be part of the program, offering services ranging from mentorships to holistic health care to the gang members.
"As a neighborhood preacher, I am tired of the only phone calls I get is when a young man has been killed or a young woman is shot, and they need a preacher," Spence said. "I want to be a preacher who can help turn young lives around and I think that's where we're at right now. It's time to partner with the police department to save our community."
Spence belongs to the God Squad, a group of ministers who work with the police. He's been hired by the department to meet with the targeted gang members.
"We're going to present to you a case: 'This is you. We know who you are, we know what you're doing,' " Spence said. " 'When you come in to the Reverend Spence, I'm going to hand you a piece of paper and find out what your needs are. I'm going to go over it with my crew, and we're going to find people in our community who do just that.' "
But the program won't begin until other community leaders buy into it. One of those key players is Khaliq. The police have asked him to co-sign a letter that will be sent to the 60 targeted people, urging them to come to a community meeting.
Khaliq said he still needs to be convinced this will help young black men, not target them.
NOTE: this is the newly added comment.
Mr. Cavil said,
I ALSO KNOW REVEREND SPENCE AND A COUPLE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE GOD SQUAD AND I DONT RESPECT THEM REVEREND SPENCE IS A HYPOCRITE HE SAYS HE IS ABOUT HELP BUT ONE SITUATION WAS AT JOSHUA SHAW'S FUNERAL THERE WAS AN INCODENT WHEN A SUPPOSED SELBY SIDER CAME TO THE FUNERAL AND OTHERS WHERE DISRESPECT FOR HIM BEING THERE AND THEN THE FUNERAL WAS SET TO FAMILY ONLY THEN LATER ONE OF JOSHUA'S CLOSE FRIEND CAME TO PAY HIS RESPECTS AND SPENCE STOPPED HIM AND SAID HE CANT COME IN AND THE BOY SAID HE JUST WANTED TO SEE HIS FRIEND BEFORE HE IS BURIED AND SPENCE SHOWED HIM A PICTURE OF JOSHUA AND SAID THERE YOU SEEN HIM GOODBYE THEN THE BOY WAS UPSET AND STARTED YELLING AT SPENCE THEN THE POLICE TOOK HIM AWAY AND DROPPED HIM OFF ON DALE AND LARPENTEUR AND SAID FIND YOUR WAY HOME HE CALLED ME I WAS STILL AT THE FUNERAL BECAUSE I WAS A PALLBEARER AND I PICKED HIM UP AND DROPPED HIM OFF AND ON THE SITUATION OF THE COPS I HAVE SEEN AND BEEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY WILL PICK UP KIDS FROM THE EASTSIDE AND DROP THEM OFF ON SELBY AREA JUST TO GIVE THEM A HARD TIME IM NOT IN A GANG BUT IT HAS EVEN HAPPENED TO ME SO IF YOUR READING THIS DONT FALL FOR REV. SPENCE HE IS JUST LOOKING OUT FOR HIS SELF AND LAURIE FROM THE GOD SQUAD SLEEPS WITH MEMBERS OF THE SELBY SIDE GANG AND CLEO IS SELBY SIDE I HAVE HEARD HIM SAY THAT PLENTY OF TIMES.IF YOU WANT A PROGRAM THAT CARES AND HELPS THESE GANG MEMBERS REFORM AND CHANGE THEIR WAYS CONTACT Y.I.T IT'S RAN MY STEVE RANDALL, COLIN MOORE AND MARY MOORE REAL GOOD PEOPLE THAT ARE HELPING STRUGGLING YOUTH EVERY DAY
Baddest of the bunch my ass. It's the Blackest of the black" targeting list. Probably hatched in one of the city council offices and given to the enforcement agencies for execution of hteir plan to rid the cities of the minorities and make way for the elderly whites who want to move back to town.
You are spot on brother with your take on the so called do gooders out to help the world. The only thing they want to help is themselves. There's other examples of these people that will come out in the landlord lawsuit trials that show these people are more interested in their place in the power structutre than they are with helping anyone. Mary Jo is not included in this. She really cares. All you have to do to find the ones that care is look to see who the city is bad mouthing and they will be the ones who genuinely care about helping others. All the rest are just working on the legacy they want to leave behind.
AMEN 6:12!
Everyday more and more citizens are learning of the A Democracy Town Hall.
This site will be recognized as the podium of diversity. Someday, those in city government who do not take this site seriously, will have no choice but to read what citizens are saying here.
I am so thankful to all of our posters and readers of the blog.
My prayers are being answered.
We all know the grape vine is alive and well in Saint Paul. It is possible we will hear from Mr. Spence and the others Mr. Cavil spoke of.
Only can a bunch of republicans see this as being diverse.
what Librals are welcome here without personal attacks?
Anonymous said...
Only can a bunch of republicans see this as being diverse.
what Liberals are welcome here without personal attacks?
12:20 PM
My response;
Here at A Democracy Town Hall citizens of Saint Paul discuss highly emotional issues like murder. Police brutality and other forms of law enforcement misconduct. We talk about citizens losing their homes to the city. Lawsuits against the city. I don't expect citizens to maintain control of their attitudes 100% of the time. We are only HUMAN and we are discussing emotional issues.
There is bound to be fighting because I will not implement a ton of rules controlling discussions. Rules will impedes our ability to see folks for who they really are. To help us with our "Truth Seeking Mission" we must see citizens for who they are. The word credibility comes to mind.
This forum isn't about Us vs Them, Republican vs Democrat, it's about truth and giving a voice to folks who aren't being heard.
ONE MORE THING.
I am a PROUD LIBERTARIAN! And I haven't been pushing the Libertarian agenda here. It wouldn't be ethical.
Well, if their parents don't teach them right and wrong... the gangs teach them to be criminals. Then they get arrested and learn more criminal behavior from prison .. or in some cases they end up dead.
Are there limited options and/or resources for gang bangers...yes.
With this new option maybe a few will take the right road but having them marked in advance and then all of them being black definately makes you wonder how far they will carry out the labeling/discrimination before an organization for human rights will step in and address the issue.
This forum isn't about Us vs Them, Republican vs Democrat, it's about truth and giving a voice to folks who aren't being heard.
...AND somewhere along the way, someone decides that voice like mine Chuck and Amanda (and a couple of anonymous people) are not worthy of hearing, or we are the ones playing 'us vs them', or 'Democrats vs Republicans'.
This is NOT a welcoming site for different views. Every week Chuck and myself get attacked over personally. Amanda has been attacked in a sexist manner the last three times she contributed, every once in a while I get the racial thing. Less and less though.
And EVERYDAY, someone, usually an anonymous poster with the majority viewpoint, blames Democrats/Liberals for their stated problems and it goes without challenge from everyone sans myself and Chuck.
If you are not on board with landlords suing the city, you are not welcome here. Sure, Bob will let our posts stand but, the frothmouthed, rabidness that you get in return may dissuade others of like mind from participating.
Not exactly an open exchange of ideas. Enforcing rules are ok once the children have demonstrated they can not follow a decent set of norms establish by general civility.
Chalking up personal attacks and rudeness to being emotional responses, is just childish. Children need to learn how not to react to everything to become worthwhile adults.
Eric
"This is NOT a welcoming site for different views. Every week Chuck and myself get attacked over personally. Amanda has been attacked in a sexist manner the last three times she contributed, every once in a while I get the racial thing."
It is a welcoming site if your views are rooted in some common sense. As far as Amanda being attcked oges, well she's done her share of attacking people too. What's good for the goose is good for the gander isn't it?
Here is the problem on the site, the post about Spence is an attack on him and there is no balance to it.
I don't know why Spence told that kid to go away, but maybe the family didn't want the kid there. So, Spence may have been stepping up for them.
That is the problem. Real people get personally attacked and no one else says - hey, maybe there is another side.
As to attacks on me. I could care less. I come to this site because it is the only place that carries any news on the landlord law suit and I am interested. The stuff is posted faster here than anywhere else.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
I thought the landlord suits were done with. What's the deal, are they still going or not?
Chuck said;
Here is the problem on the site, the post about Spence is an attack on him and there is no balance to it.
I don't know why Spence told that kid to go away, but maybe the family didn't want the kid there. So, Spence may have been stepping up for them.
That is the problem. Real people get personally attacked and no one else says - hey, maybe there is another side.
My response;
At no time has anyone accused of anything here been stopped from coming here and setting the record straight! And whenever possible i invite folks who are being talked about to come here to defend themselves.
NOTHING is stopping Mr. Spence from coming here. IF, you know how to contact him invite him here to talk to us.
Mr Cavil has a right to his opinion. Would you of had me delete his message Chuck? Whether you want to believe it or not Chuck and Eric, their is many black citizens who believe the black leadership in Saint Paul now are nothing more than tokens of a institutionally racist city government.
In fact, I too would like Mr. Spence to come here so I can ask him where all the moneys went for this program and why is it such a failure?
What are you folks in city government going to do when A Democracy is used on a regular basis by disparaged blacks?
Eric said;
This is NOT a welcoming site for different views.
My response;
This is an out right LIE!
Eric said;
Every week Chuck and myself get attacked over personally. Amanda has been attacked in a sexist manner the last three times she contributed, every once in a while I get the racial thing. Less and less though.
My response;
Eric, tell us you have never personally attacked anyone here. You can't because you have. You have even threatened to kick folks ass here including mine. I told both you and Chuck I would delete personal attacks and both of you said let them stand. Did you want me to let the rude comments stand hoping it would reflect badly on the Town Hall and persuade folks not to read? Well you are wrong. Human nature enjoys seeing a good fight for a righteous cause.
Eric said;
And EVERYDAY, someone, usually an anonymous poster with the majority viewpoint, blames Democrats/Liberals for their stated problems and it goes without challenge from everyone sans myself and Chuck.
My response;
This is the biggest deceit, since many of the folks who post here are Democrats sick and tired of the status quo. What do you entrenched DFLers do when one of your own disagrees with the staus quo. YOU ALL OSTRASIZE THEM LIKE YOU ARE DOING ERIC HARE. You DFLers ostracized THE LATE BRAIN BATES for daring to say code enforcement was wrong! As usual this is a sorry attempt at killing the messenger to hide the truths spoken here.
Eric said;
If you are not on board with landlords suing the city, you are not welcome here.
My response;
This is another falsehood!
Eric said;
Sure, Bob will let our posts stand but, the frothmouthed, rabidness that you get in return may dissuade others of like mind from participating.
My response;
like I said, you requested I do not delete the rude comments directed at you. So did Chuck. You have in effect asked for it.
What do you and Chuck expect? You two have come here for years and tried to convince citizens who have been damaged by the city it didn't happen. That is like trying to convince someone who was raped it didn't happen. We all know what happened including you and Chuck. The story's have been told very well! You and Chuck do not want others to know the truth because it reflects badly on your party since they have been in control.
IF, it had been Republicans in city government and responsible for policy's that have harmed citizens they would be the ones catching hell from citizens here. But, they weren't in office and weren't responsible for the policy's that have gotten this city sued near oblivion.
Eric said;
Chalking up personal attacks and rudeness to being emotional responses, is just childish. Children need to learn how not to react to everything to become worthwhile adults.
My response;
Eric, I'd like to get together some folks and take your home under eminent domain and see how well you handle your emotions. The only thing childish here is your self serving description of this forum. The only real childish thing to ever go down here is your personal threats to kick my ass and others. No different than how you handle yourself at a district council meeting threatening folks like mild mannered Martin Ownings.
One more thing.
Do we need some links to stories in the blog to hash over some truths?
Anonymous said...
I thought the landlord suits were done with. What's the deal, are they still going or not?
11:05 PM
My response;
The suits are not over. HELL AND HIGH WATER IS FLOWING DOWN STREAM! Some folks will be gasping for air real soon.
The only way the DFL can have the appearance of any crecibility is through lies and deceit.
Good job of proving my point Bob. Bravo, Bob! Find me one topic on the city where someone doesn't blame the DFL/Democrats/Liberals. Just look up at 12:08.
Link to whatever articles you want. You seem to anyway.
Who gives a shit if you delete the responses or not? The point is that what's to be expected when visiting his site if you don't come here with some poor me against the city bullshit. Why hide the true nature of the posters?
In all of this, there has been one case where all the facts on both sides were laid out, and I fall on the side of believing the the former homeowner who now lives in Anoka. The rest is a bunch of landlords who didn't take care fo their properties and are the real ones pimping peoples emotions and ignorance to rally behind their cause. Only you guys believed in their RICO suit. They never did as it wasn't their end game.
You ever wonder why out of hundreds of landlords in St Paul, only a couple of dozen are crying? You ever wonder why out the main six to ten landlords there has been ONE tenant out of hundreds over the years that was supportive. One. You ever wonder why out of dozens of community nonprofits, civil rights, and church organizations in the neighborhoods, none of them are supporting the landlords suit? Many of these have sued the city with success time and time again- yet, they aren't interested in a civil rights violation of the poor and minority? Not likely.
The answer is simple. The suits are bullshit. People will jump on board because they have some personal mishaps with the city but, that's the landlords goal. TO try and create an image of themselves as being victims.
What's really going on is most of you are being used. Period. Its not political, its about money. Plain and simple. You ever wonder why the suit asked for money, instead of fair policy (since they are suing on behalf of a protected class status?)?
=======
I fight with people one on one. They (Froggy, George, Jim, anonymous) come back with shit about my race. Or, chalk it up to me being some stooge for the party(Bob Johnson). Its because they're in over their head and lost their argument. But, its been a while since I've been baited in tough guy pissing match. Every last one of those were spewing racist shit, not just junk about Eric.
================
Bob, there is nothing you can do to my house except paint the gutters, reset the fence and help lay some sod in about a month or so.
We all get screwed by the government. Hell, they are working a number over on me right now that makes me want to go ballistic. However, I am well aware of where the problem is and am not chalking it to something personal or systematic.
Thats the difference.
These suits are over. Ask anyone you're NOT sharing a beer or a joint with and you'll hear how hard it is to overturn a ruling on the federal bench without any new or significance, or hell any evidence at all. IMPOSSIBLE.
We'll keep hearing the promises of heads rolling and whatever. You can count on that.
Eric
Eric names some peopele at the blog.
We all know that THE WORST IS THE ST. PAUL COPS, AND THEIR BOSSES Chis Coleman, THE CITY COUNCIL.
Eric said;
The rest is a bunch of landlords who didn't take care fo their properties and are the real ones pimping peoples emotions and ignorance to rally behind their cause. Only you guys believed in their RICO suit. They never did as it wasn't their end game.
My response;
MORE deceit! We have told one story after another here of working class blue collar citizens losing their home. Elderly, women and children losing their housing.
Eric said;
You ever wonder why out of hundreds of landlords in St Paul, only a couple of dozen are crying?
My response;
I am a handyman by trade, I hear from landlords all the time with the opinion the city isn't fair concerning code enforcement. The city has created a climate of fear and many are afraid to speak out. They have investments to be concerned about. The city has a reputation of going after those who oppose them. Eric maybe, you will be surprised to learn most of SPARL (Saint Paul Area Responsible Landlords)feel code compliance's ordinances should be re-examined.
Eric said;
You ever wonder why out the main six to ten landlords there has been ONE tenant out of hundreds over the years that was supportive.
My response;
Another form of deception. I posted many tenants depositions supporting their landlords. They came right out and said the city is a damn liar and they had good landlords.
Eric said;
You ever wonder why out of dozens of community nonprofits, civil rights, and church organizations in the neighborhoods, none of them are supporting the landlords suit?
My response;
Most of these organizations have their hand out for money from the city. This city has a reputation of ostracizing those who aren't singing the party song.
The majority of citizens have NO CLUE the city is being sued for essentially running low income folks out of town. Mostly blacks. Your non-profits are part of the problem. (District Councils) And there was a great deal of thought put into whether they should be included in legal proceedings. That may still come about in the future.
Eric said concerning the landlords fair housing lawsuits;
What's really going on is most of you are being used. Period. Its not political, its about money. Plain and simple. You ever wonder why the suit asked for money, instead of fair policy (since they are suing on behalf of a protected class status?
My response;
Another sorry attempt of deception.
First of all, this blog is a lot more than landlords crying foul. We can't forget All those homesteaded homes that were taken from citizens.
The landlords are suing because they have had their investments targeted and ruined by the city.
FACT IS, housing code enforcement has been used to condemn women and children to the streets because a handful of neighbors and the city council deemed them less than desirable renters in the city. The city targeted these landlords to put them out of business for renting to low income citizens with behavioral issues.
Eric said;
Bob, there is nothing you can do to my house except paint the gutters, reset the fence and help lay some sod in about a month or so.
My response;
Be happy to help you out friend. I was only trying to get you to wear these citizens shoes here who have lost there home.
Bob said, "FACT IS, housing code enforcement has been used to condemn women and children to the streets because a handful of neighbors and the city council deemed them less than desirable renters in the city. The city targeted these landlords to put them out of business for renting to low income citizens."
I love this shit... Goebbels has to be so proud of you... Once again the big lie. The more you say it the more you believe it.
Now don't forget the other half of the big lie Bob at the same time that the City wants to "get rid" of the poor folks it is trying to get them to move into PHA.
Just like Goebbels, that is the beauty of the really big lie, you have your big lie do both things at the same time. Bob is able to get the racist to rally behind him because the City continues to house more and more of "those people in PHA," while at the same time claiming that the City is the one that is being discriminatory by "shutting down all of the low income housing." Much like Goebbels blaming the plight of Germany on the Capitalist Jewish Bankers and the radical Communists that conspire with them...(get it? It doesn't work)... Bob, claims that the City's efforts to make the problem landlords repair their property is actually an effort to assault on the poor powerless people that are unable to make their landlords repair their property.
Remember (in Bob's world) the perpetrator is the victim and those who would try to stop those who would victimize the poor are actually the ones hurting them.
See in Bob's world all of the poor black people want to live in bad housing stock, they don't want them repaired and then the evil City comes along and tries to make the poor landlord disrupt the perfect way that they had their houses and make the plumbing work (when we know Black folks don't want working plumbing) and put in working smoke detectors (when we know that Black folks like dying in house fires).
Yes, Bob that evil City is forcing those people who search the nation for homes with no working toilet and fried electric wiring out of here by hurting those wonderful landlords that try to maintain this "special" kind of housing for them.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
"city. The city targeted these landlords to put them out of business for renting to low income citizens with behavioral issues."
OR....as the city council is proud to proclaim:
they would like to keep the house condemned so they use that to connect people with services and address their problem......because a certain family has behavioral issues. Well thanks a heap city of St. Paul.....you want to make their problems worse by using condemnation and thropwing them into the streets.
Listen folks, read through this blog and look at the stories from the citizens who have had run in's with the city. There is hundreds of them all telling the same stories. And this is the kicker, these citizens do not know each other!
Chuck and Eric can come here and write you 5000 paragraphs of opinion in one sitting. It doesn't change the truth!
War Veteran grapples with the abuses of code enforcement. See the video linked above.
Code enforcement destroys elderly lady's life.
More thieving crooks in code enforcement. From the lips of a code enforcement officer.
Right Bob...
And what do they have in common?
They all have code problems.
And, the City did its job and wrote them up.
And it gave them time to repair.
And, more time...
And, more time...
Until, finally orders were given to repair or remove...
And more time passed...
And finally the City did what the law required them to do...
Amazing isn't it that all of those people have the exact same story. The City was mean to me.
And, you can make up all of the lies that you want about the City's motivation, when all they are trying to do is the first thing that governments are formed to do... protect the health and safety of its citizens. That is what governments are formed for. It is the City's job to enforce the State building code.
Sooner or later they do.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Dirty stinking councilman and a crook in city code enforcement work together to steal home from woman. See the video.
Councilman isn't held to the same standards of housing code enforcement as regular citizens.
Double standard for folks who have friends in city hall.
I have to go to work. When I get back I may feel the desire to post more links to crimes against the citizens by the city of Saint Paul.
Yes Bob, in this town City council members get written up for code violations and are required to repair them the same as everyone else... the horror.
In Bob's world that is wrong Council people's houses shouldn't get written up and given time (like everyone else) they should be demo'ed at the first sign of peeling paint.
Of course we see Nancy's house again... 5 years - 5 years that house was written up 5 years the neighbors complain. Nancy SOLD THE HOUSE. And the people she sold it to didn't get the repairs done.
But, the City should have given the new owners more time, and of course it isn't Nancy's pals that didn't get the work done and didn't pay her that is the problem, its the City who finally after five years of excuses and a vacant building said that is it. We are done. The neighbors don't have to put up with it any more.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck said;
Yes Bob, in this town City council members get written up for code violations and are required to repair them the same as everyone else... the horror.
My response;
And they don't even need a permit for roofing like the rest of us.
Chuck said;
Of course we see Nancy's house again... 5 years - 5 years that house was written up 5 years the neighbors complain. Nancy SOLD THE HOUSE. And the people she sold it to didn't get the repairs done.
My response;
Tell the folks the rest of the story Chuck. You don't have to, they will see the video and truth themselves. And it wasn't neighbors Chuck. It was a single neighbor. Most the neighbors thought it was a shame to demolish a historical home.
I encourage citizens to read the links on this subject I posted. Decide for yourself who is right and who is wrong. These links are just the tip of the ice berg.
Bob, that is my point, to tell the rest of the story.
All of your stories are one sided.
Nancy is a victim. From nowhere all of a sudden the City demo's her house.
We never mention that the process took five years.
Your war Vet, how long did that take?
Do you ever post anything on the other side?
Hell no!
That isn't your point. Your point is that you are here to take care of the people who take care of you. Every once in a while you whine that you are going to quit this thing and the big boys throw you a bone and you are back on your rampage against the City enforcing the basic housing code.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Bob, that is my point, to tell the rest of the story.
All of your stories are one sided.
My response;
Let's start with this story I posted here Chuck. The Pioneer Press comes out and glorifies this Spence guy as a saint and Mr. Cavil comes here and says it's not true. SO, that is another side of the story. It isn't the story you want because it doesn't fit your image of what you and your friends claim to be doing for our city.
On the 14 E. Jessamine issue.
We had Councilman Lee Helgen and other entrenched bureaucrats from Saint Paul Issues and Forums including you, attempt to lie the city's way out of this issue. And you know it Chuck. Us property rights advocates cleaned your clocks with the truth. Councilman Lee Helgen, you and many others did a really piss poor job of defending the city when we discussed these issues at Saint Paul Issues and Forums. We exposed theft, skull duggery in the form of a so called independent inspector. Skulduggery lying about the condition of the home and going as far as to get a DFL entrenched Saint Paul Pioneer Press reporter to lie his f...ing ass off in a story on the issue.
We have gotten the other side of the story and it is WEAK!
Chuck said;
Do you ever post anything on the other side?
Hell no!
That isn't your point. Your point is that you are here to take care of the people who take care of you. Every once in a while you whine that you are going to quit this thing and the big boys throw you a bone and you are back on your rampage against the City enforcing the basic housing code.
My response;
Chuck, you know damn well I have invited numerous city officials here to discuss these issues. Most are to chicken shit to face the truth. I have begged you and Eric to stay on and attempt to defend the city. Although in my opinion it has been fruitless because you can't convince folks who have been wronged it didn't happen. You can't hide the truth.
I have a love hate relationship with this blog. At times I want to quit. I think why bother I don't have a horse in this race. At times I feel others who these issues effect could do a lot more than I am doing, and this is a struggle for me.In the end my conscience prevails and the blog continues on.
As far as the so called big boys giving me money. I have received CHICKEN FEED for donations from property rights advocates. I have spent far more of my own money on bringing attention to this issue than I have received from others.
My conscience is driving me. Deal with that!
"Of course we see Nancy's house again... 5 years - 5 years that house was written up 5 years the neighbors complain. Nancy SOLD THE HOUSE. And the people she sold it to didn't get the repairs done."
This is anpother baltant lie. I toured this house when they had the protests. It was in perfect condition and there's photos to show it. Repke must have forgot about the photos, but what would that matter. DFL'rs try to convince you not believe what you see with your own eyes in the quest to further their perverted agendas. We saw the house Chuck and we heard from Nancy L. We heard the city lie about it and we don't buy into your BS.
Interior photos 14 E. Jessamine
Exterior photos 14 E. Jessamine
When ARROGANCE rules city hall this is what happens!
Bob, on the Spence deal the paper didn't call him and angel, it just said he was trying to work with the police in dealing with gang issues.
We then have the classic personal assault on this list that said that because he escorted some little gang banger out of a funeral (one assumes because the family wanted him to) that he is an evil jerk and all the work he has done is for nothing.
Bob, listen to yourself sometime.
Whoever, whatever, is trying to improve the City has to be shit as far as you are concerned. People who have devoted their lives to trying to make positive improvements are all ass holes and scum and on the take.
Its pathetic.
Its been so long ago, I don't even remember what all was wrong with the house that was Nancy's mother's and then some pals of Nancy's that took the house and didn't fix it. In your pictures did you show the car jack that was holding part of the house up? Wasn't that this one?
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck said;
Bob, listen to yourself sometime.
Whoever, whatever, is trying to improve the City has to be shit as far as you are concerned. People who have devoted their lives to trying to make positive improvements are all ass holes and scum and on the take.
Its pathetic.
My response;
I do not believe what you are saying for one minute. Most folks serving are good people with good intentions. I and many others do not agree with how they are handling many issues over housing. The only thing pathetic Chuck is how you hard line DFLers have to seek out a villain to win elections. Going years back. First it was the strip joints, then the head shops, the corner grocery's, then the bars, then landlords. That wasn't good enough you all tried to villainize AnyTime Fitness, this is pathetic!
When you can't any longer find a real villain, you invent one. Now I know there is good DFLers out there reading. These guys you elected into office supporting predatory housing code compliance's aren't your friends. They are friends to the movers and shakers like Chuck here. They violate civil rights of citizens living in Saint Paul and their only concern is whether you have enough money to sue them or inform the public of what they done to you.
Chuck said;
Its been so long ago, I don't even remember what all was wrong with the house that was Nancy's mother's and then some pals of Nancy's that took the house and didn't fix it. In your pictures did you show the car jack that was holding part of the house up? Wasn't that this one?
My response;
Long ago, must of been at least 4 weeks since we talked about 14 E. Jessamine.
Chuck said;
In your pictures did you show the car jack that was holding part of the house up? Wasn't that this one?
My response;
This statement was part of the dfl "Lie machine" in an attempt to deceive the public. I will post the picture of the "SCREW JACK" commonly used to level floors of homes as soon as I locate it.
Many home owners sunk thousands of dollars into renovations only to have the home demolished by the city.
I remember the city inspectors saying the Jessamine place had a terrible foundation and how the house was being held up by a jack in the basement, but when I look at the photos, even after they knock it down the walls which the foundation sits on are still standing. How strong does a foundation have to be, anyone know?
I also remember all the the lefties lying and trying to convince the woman that owned the house that the landlords and blog people were just using her and manipulating her, but years later after the house is gone, who is it that routinely stands up for that woman and who is it that's always trying to tear her apart?
Bob maybe you could get her to come her and talk about how she was manipulated and taken advantage of and used by all these terrible people here.
LINK HERE said...
Interior photos 14 E. Jessamine
1:37 PM
If this isn't good enough, would sopmeone tell me what is?
People who have devoted their lives to trying to make positive improvements are all ass holes and scum and on the take."
I don't think that of you Chuck. I don't like you, but I admire you and respect you. At least you have the guts to stand up and say what you believe in which is much much more than the mobsters running the city that you always want to stick up for. Joining us Chuck would give your work much more credibility.
I remember seeing the jack Bob and I just have to tell ya, if there's anyone who actually believes that a little jack like that would hold up a house, they are nuts!
Here we go again with my so called friend Chuck! Chuck once again you try to rip me apart as being no good and that everything I did was wrong... Well I hope that makes you feel like a big man and important because you know as well as I do and anyone else that toured 14 E. Jessamine that the home was in very good condition and that "CAR JACK" was a SCREW JACK" that was in that exact location the day my mother purchased the home 40 years ago...unless you would like to call my mother a liar too!
As for who I sold it too and the money I wasn't paid that is not relevant to the issue of tearing the home down. People do make mistakes and I made my share. One was whom I sold it too without full payment, but with the intimidation I was facing I sold it so I could get out of St.Paul, and get my life back together which I have done...
Nancy O.
Good news says Mr. Helgen. Jessamine has been torn down. Indeed it was good news Mr. Helgen. The citys actions did nothing short of galvanize the citys property owners against your predatory code enforcement operations.
Nancy's HOT and Helgen's NOT!
Thank you 6:42...
Nancy, I don't intend to attack you, but Bob puts you up as the vestile virgin sacrificed to the evil devils at City Hall.
As Bob reports it you were sitting in your house one day the inspectors show up for no reason and 15 days later the house is knocked down.
My point in bringing it up is that the time line is all messed up its five long years, multiple inspections and from the City's prospective there are two guys from Minneapolis that own the building aren't getting the work done and what work they do they don't have inspected.
So, wasn't one of the issues on this one the electrical and these guys "do their own electric work" and the City has no clue what was done or by who and of course no one knows what was done behind the walls? Isn't that this one, or was this another of Bob's true stories?
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
I followed this mess very carefully and I know that they did have the proper permits for the work. What started the ball rolling for the eventual demolition was that they did not finsih by the city deadline. They were close and the photos speak to that as well. The city showed up and ordered them to stop working. The city then ordered the utilities disconnected and then used the disconnected utility fact to make the claim that the place was hazardous because of no utilities. The story about the jack didn't come up until after the owner had an inspection which gave it a good rating other then the hazard stuff for the utility being disconnected.
No, if you followed it here that is what you would believe, but in the real world the electrical work expired and then these two guys "fixed it" on their own without a permit or an electrician... here is a few of the notes on 14 Jessamine still on the web.
Electrical Permit
Type: Service & Circuits Residential Repair/Alter
Issued Date: 12/21/2005
Contractor: Miska Electric Inc
Estimated Value: $2,000.00
Activity (most recent first):
MAIN-Electrical Inspection: 03/01/2006: Cancel
02/13/2006: Correction Letter
01/13/2006: Corrections Required
12/27/2005: Approved Notify Xcel
12/16/2005: Approved w/Corrections
Expired
05 211584 RPR 00 B 14 JESSAMINE AVE E The following "Trade" Permits are required for this project: Electrical, W.Air Vent, Plumbing, . Closed without final approval Building Permit
Type: 2-Family/Duplex Repair
Issued Date: 12/07/2005
Final Date: 02/03/2006
Contractor: Lingen Construction Inc
State Valuation: $8,000.00
Activity (most recent first):
Final Inspection: 02/03/2006: Permit Closed
01/26/2006: Stop Order
Preliminary Inspection: 01/23/2006: Verbal Order
01/18/2006: No Action
01/17/2006: Corrections Required
12/28/2005: Corrections Required
12/16/2005: No Action
Architectural (R) Review: 12/06/2005: Preliminary Plan Check
12/06/2005: Approved
Closed without Approval
04 110583 PLB 00 PG 14 JESSAMINE AVE E Folder Re-Opened per attempt made by Don Cheney. Folder closed 1:40pm 2/3/06 by DEC bond revoked.. Closed without final approval Plumbing/Gasfitting/Inside Water Piping
Type: Plumbing/Inside Water (All) Residential Replace
Issued Date: 06/25/2004
Contractor: Liberty Plumbing & Htg CO
Estimated Value: $3,000.00
Activity (most recent first):
MAIN-Plumbing Inspection: 02/03/2006: Re-Open
02/03/2006: Permit Closed
01/06/2006: Approved
01/05/2006: Re-Open
Closed without Approval
03 403634 S&C 00 E 14 JESSAMINE AVE E Electrical Permit
Type: Service & Circuits Residential Repair/Alter
Issued Date: 11/25/2003
Contractor: Metro Electric Construction Co Inc
Estimated Value: $400.00
Activity (most recent first):
MAIN-Electrical Inspection: 03/24/2005: Expired
Expired
03 346840 RPR 00 B 14 JESSAMINE AVE E The following "Trade" Permits are required for this project: Electrical, W.Air Vent, Plumbing, . Closed without final approval Building Permit
Type: 2-Family/Duplex Repair
Issued Date: 09/02/2003
Final Date: 09/09/2004
Contractor: Julian Jayasuriya
State Valuation: $16,000.00
Activity (most recent first):
Final Inspection: 11/19/2004: Re-Open
09/09/2004: Permit Closed
Preliminary Inspection: 07/13/2004: No Action
Red Tagged Insp: 06/28/2004: Need Information
Preliminary Inspection: 06/22/2004: Red Tagged
05/17/2004: No Action
04/27/2004: Corrections Required
04/05/2004: Verbal Order
03/31/2004: No Action
03/19/2004: Verbal Order
03/04/2004: Verbal Order
Architectural (R) Review: 09/02/2003: Preliminary Plan Check
09/02/2003: Approved
Closed without Approval
02 239044 RPR 00 B 14 JESSAMINE AVE E The following "Trade" Permits are required for this project: Electrical, W.Air Vent, Plumbing, . Closed without final approval Building Permit
Type: 2-Family/Duplex Repair
Issued Date: 11/13/2002
Final Date: 09/05/2003
Contractor: Nancy Osterman
State Valuation: $10,000.00
Activity (most recent first):
Preliminary Inspection: 12/15/2003: No Action
Final Inspection: 09/05/2003: Permit Closed
Architectural (R) Review: 11/13/2002: Preliminary Plan Check
11/13/2002: Approved
Closed without Approval
02 101557 VB3 00 VB 14 JESSAMINE AVE E DO NOT ACCEPT BOND OR ISSUE PERMITS - CALL STEVE MAGNER 248-4323 VB Event Log:
02/25/2002 - Received as a Category 2.
04/18/2002 - Code compliance inspection applied for.
04/24/2002 - Code Compliance completed.
08/01/2002: Changed from Category 2 to Category 3
11/13/2002: Performance Deposit: Cash Received. Expiration date 05/13/2003.
11/13/2002: Building Permit Issued
08/05/2003: PERFORMANCE DEPOSIT: FORFEITED
09/02/2003: Building Permit Issued
09/03/2003: Performance Deposit: Cash Received.
09/05/2003: Check returned for lack funds.
06/25/2004: Plumbing/Gasfitting/Inside Water Piping Issued
09/30/2004: Performance Deposit: Cash Received $2000.00 Plus $15.00 NSF Charge.
09/30/2004: Performance Deposit: Cash Received - Six month expiration date March 30, 2005.
03/31/2005: PERFORMANCE DEPOSIT: FORFEITED.
06/15/2005 Performance Deposit: Cash Received $10,000.00. OK to issue permits per Jim Seeger. JS/lkk
06/16/2005 NO PERMITS ARE TO BE ISSUED PER CITY COUNCIL - MARSHA (68570). Sandy S. /lkk
08/17/2005: Cash refunded. SLA
08/25/2005: LIEP Code Compliance Inspection Report Completed on 08/25/2005
11/29/2005 Permits may be issued once vacant building fees are paid per Jim Seeger/lkk.
11/29/2005: $2000.00 Performance Deposit Received. Six-month expiration date 05/29/2006.
12/06/2005: VB FEE PAID. PERMITS OK THRU 12/06/2006
12/07/2005: Building Permit Issued
12/21/2005: Electrical Permit Issued
01/24/2006: PERFORMANCE DEPOSIT: FORFEITED - PER APPELLATE COURT CASE, #A05-1422.
1/25/2006: DO NOT ACCEPT BONDS OR ISSUE PERMITS - CALL STEVE MAGNER 651-248-4323
02/02/2006: CE VB Proceed w/Demo Ltr
02/15/2006: Demolition Permit Issued
09/21/2006: Razed by City Finaled
01 214024 RPR 00 B 14 JESSAMINE AVE E Bond $10,000 per Steve Magner good for 60 days from council meeting on about 5/ 18 / 05 . Building Permit
Type: Single Family Dwelling Repair
Issued Date: 07/11/2001
Final Date: 01/03/2002
Contractor: Nancy Osterman
State Valuation: $3,000.00
Activity (most recent first):
Final Inspection: 01/02/2002: Final
Preliminary Inspection: 07/12/2001: No Action
Architectural (R) Review: 07/11/2001: Preliminary Plan Check
07/11/2001: Approved
Finaled
Pretty sad list of people BS'ing the city about when or if they would get the work done. Starting and stopping. On and on for five years.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
That's sure imposing on Nancy O's privacy.
I experienced the city process. They made it impossible.
From what Chuck posted it looks like Bob was telling the truth. The owners spent a lot of money on 14 Jessamine then the city tore it down.
This was the new roof that was put on before the city/Magner became involved. I had decided to put a new roof on the city did not tell me too...
Type: Single Family Dwelling Repair
Issued Date: 07/11/2001
Final Date: 01/03/2002
Contractor: Nancy Osterman
State Valuation: $3,000.00
Activity (most recent first):
Final Inspection: 01/02/2002: Final
Preliminary Inspection: 07/12/2001: No Action
Architectural (R) Review: 07/11/2001: Preliminary Plan Check
07/11/2001: Approved
Finaled
The whole ordeal began on or about the date of;
MAGNER 248-4323 VB Event Log:
02/25/2002
And yes it was a long drawn out process, if you were to look at the original code compliance list compared to the final one you will see many add ons. That along with the time in between the court processes when no work was allowed to be done it did take time.
Chuck I personally know that the electrical work was completed by a licensed master electrician too. Regardless of the length of time it took the building was 99% complete at the time the city did tear it down, that was a big waste of many peoples time and money for Magner to basically make a point or show his power.
But hey that sure is a nice vacant lot and the neighborhood is just thriving now!
Nancy O.
And I'm sure the property tax to the cash strapped city is much more now than with a nice finsihed house on it, but who cares about money when you're Government?
I don't believe you Chuck and the BS you psot is so confusing to follow that a person cannot make heads or tails of any of it.
I remember the Truth in Housing inspection that said the place was OK other than utilities being turned off.
12:23 TISH reports are done when places are put for sale...the place wasn't for sale.
Nancy, again I feel sorry for what you have gone through in your life, but I don't find it to have been the City's fault.
If the code work would have been done in the first place there wouldn't have been an issue. But, you sold it to two guys who never got the work done and if they used an electrician to do the work there is no way in hell for the City to know that because the work was done with out a permit and with out inspections.
But Oh golly gee after five years of screwing around the City is suppose to just cut these two guys some slack and say we don't care what went on with the wiring behind the walls we will just turn our head and sign off on that...
No they didn't and that makes them the evil one's because they didn't just accept these guys word that the electrical is just fine.
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGG....
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
A question for Chuck;
Is it necessary to tear a home down to check to see if the electrical wiring is done properly? Or are there other methods that might be a little less extreme?
There would have been if Nancy could have shown reciepts from certified electricians that the work was done right.
How come a permit wasn't used ?
Nancy, you said yourself you got mixed up with the wrong people AND,
THAT YOUR OWN LIFE WAS A MESS.
Something about retaliation for not being an informant ?
It takes one to know one, so thats why the police wanted you as a snitch.
You had a black check against you from the start. No credibility.
"No they didn't and that makes them the evil one's because they didn't just accept these guys word that the electrical is just fine."
Well what the hell Chuck.....the city take PHAs word that everything is fine and don't do any inspections on work being done. I thought you said there was no fvaorable treatment going on here in our fine city.
So she had a black check against here from the start, but does that OK how she was handled by code enforcement and the Police? Don't forget, there's other people saying the same thing about code enforcement trying to shake them down. From what I heard they don't know each other either. How can people that don't know each other being making the very same accusations and the city does no investigation whatsoever Chuck? Instead they cover it up. Then we look over at the landlords lawsuits and see the city destroying evidence and shredding documents. It's not exactly like the city has clean hands here Chuck! And even if it was 5 years, so what? The place was 95% done. What harm would there have been to let them finish even if it was a day past the deadline?
The timeline seems to be beyond the normal time line to finish and complete work. The sale of the property was flawed, and possibly not even legal. The processes for work permits were not followed. While the house may have been pleasing to look at, it was not safe.
I agree with Chuck there. Its the truth on the state of the house and no one can honestly deny that.
However, I part with my older friend and stand with Nancy (just her, not you other numbskulls), and have to ask was this necessary. I don't think I would have torn the house down. I would not have advised it. When the bulldozer came out that day, I have a list of seven or eight other homes between the North End and East Side that were well past the stage of forgiveness. Go down Case ave on either side of Payne and you'll see what I mean.
This is a case where the exception should have applied and not the rule.
However, this is entirely different than those who buy properties for business purposes and do nothing to improve and fail to maintain the property, because they know people will still rent and their business goal will still be met.
Just like any restaurant or barbershop or almost any business in St Paul, you have regulations to follow or you forfeit your privilege to do business in the city.
Back to this issue. Up until the end, this was an owner occupied home (even if they sale was not legal), special consideration should go for those kinds of property.
Eric
So many questions...
Time... the point was at some point the job has to be done. A year later, they gave them more time, two years later they gave them more time. Nancy sells it. New owners, they give them more time and on and on and on.
The problem with the "property rights" folks on this list is that they don't see that their actions effect other peoples property values... so, house sits vacant... no problem, house next door goes down in value $20K who the F cares I need another year or two to get my act together...
and, for the "investor class" here, house goes down $20K in value next door and I can buy it cheaper and rent it out.
So, on the house that once was Nancy's that is the issue for the City... how many years can it be allowed to hurt neighboring property values? 5 isn't enough!
And, that is all that these people have in common. They either couldn't or wouldn't repair their property and when faced with City dead lines determined that the City was out to get them. They have nothing in common other than that whine.
As to the City shredding "evidence" you are kidding aren't you? The court has already thrown that issue out. The City followed data practices rules and got rid of old data. The City paid thousands of dollars to have tech guys come in and pull the crap off of the hard drive to satisfy the court and got hundreds of thousands of emails out of the "missing evidence" and what did the lawyers find...??? NOTHING.
You can't say the City destroyed evidence when to this point there isn't any evidence of any kind.
But, that is the landlords case. We have nothing, so that means that there must be a very big and very strong conspiracy hiding everything from us. And, the fact that we have no evidence proves how good they are...
Crazy...
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck we can not wait until the day the city inspectors have their day with your investment rental property. Then we will see how you feel about the never ending list of repairs you are required to make.Have your wallet ready Chuck your going to need it, at some point all rentals are going to have to comply in St.Paul just wait and see
2:50 - I have had them in there multiple times compliments of the people on this list false reporting me.
My favorite one was the report that dozens of people were living in the house when there were 3 upstairs and 2 downstairs.
And, the time the inspector just stopped by and my tenant let him in...
Keep those phone lines ringing you little whining chicken S.....
I think what torks me more than anything is that you people are so narcissistic that you think that this stuff only happens to you and that it isn't normal. You are so important that the City is out to get you.
The City doesn't even know or care who you are. They are just doing there job and you won't do yours...
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck, are you at all familiar with gangsters and mobsters like Al Capone, Frank Costello, Jim Colosimo and the likes of them that corrupted our American city officials ? Of course you are.
Corrupted judges, mayors, council members, and every one of them are supposed to serve the people.
Every one of them at some time,had taken bribes, money and favors from Capone and company.
The likes of Al Capone are gone, but what has evolved from the days when Big Jim Colosimo started the racket, is now an era of city officials strong arming citizens into compliance to further its indoctrinating policys of spend and tax, pushing the poor out of the city and trying to control landlords buisness, just like Capone running all the taverns and wiskey houses(speak easys).
I believe landlords are a force to be reckon with if they can all band together for the common good of the city.
Form a landlords union and sit down with city officials instead of the city trying to control landlords with strong arm mobster tactics.
Are there not communitys in St.Paul, that the city is turning a blind eye when asian and mexicans violate occupancy standards ? Anyone second this ?
I beg to differ with you that the city does its job and that everybody gets treated fairly.
Truth is, the only people the city feels are important are themselves.
Thats what the city learned from the likes of Capone, when all that mattered was what could we take.
If you can honestly believe that there was never one single incident of arbitrary enforcement in this city Chuck, then we all must agree that these city officials are the masters of cover up.
Not so, the people who have posted here have offered much in the way of at least arbitrary enforcement and strong arm tactics.
You and Eric can boast all day and night that because the RICO guys haven't won yet, the city must be saints.
Bottom line is, Chuck, you need to do your homework and read more about life in chicago and New York in the 20s and 30s.
Then you can join us here in the real world.
Jeff Matiatos
Something to think about,
Anger is only one letter short of danger.
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.
8:14,
So what are your ideas ?
Jeff just because you don't know how the government works doesn't mean that it is run in some fantasy world of yours.
As I have said multiple times Bob's and the landlords big lie, makes no sense.
In the real world, Saint Paul has more people of color and people in low to moderate incomes than it ever has had. Highest percentages of either ever. But in the pretend world of Bob/you/the landlord law suit, the City is in some kind of secret campaign ridding itself of poor people and people of color by throwing them into the streets. It isn't true, there is no basis of fact to it, but it is a big lie designed to make the worse of the worse, those who would exploit the poorest of the poor appear to be the victims.
The people involved in the lawsuits either couldn't (didn't have the money) or wouldn't (would not invest the money) repair their property. That is all they have in common. Most successful investors want no part of them, wouldn't be in the same room with them.
As far as the government being some kind of criminal enterprise, wouldn't you have thought a change of administration would discover this great conspiracy? Chris ran against Randy... Randy is the one that the lawsuit was focused on.
I know its hard but think, think real, real hard, wouldn't Chris have blown the whistle on Randy if any of the stories were true?
How crazy does someone have to be to think that no one ever would take political advantage once they had the "secret decoding ring..."
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck as far as the city following data practice rules, that's a crook! Data practice doesn't trump the rules of the court. The city may have produced thousands of emails, but they destroyed the ones from the time frame of when the city went after the landlords. Read the stuff Bob has in the archives and you'll see that. When you are sued ofr soemthing, data practices doesn't allow you to start destroying things that were asked for in discovery. One court may have thrown it out , but the appeals court will put it back in. If they don't, it'll create a precedent that says it's OK to start destroying evidence the minute you get sued for something. I don't think they are going to create that precedent.
As far as not repairing their property, you're wrong again. Bob posted deposition testimony from inspectors that said these guys did repair their property.
your comment about the city not knowing who people are is also another BS spin. Someone from the city testified that Kathy Lantry showed up at code enforcement with a list of names they wanted to go after. It was posted here Chuck! Read it and stop trying to make us believe this twisted spin you keep squealing about.
Chuck is convinced this is all frivolious and meaningless, and he spends several thousand hours saying so!
Chuck said;
As I have said multiple times Bob's and the landlords big lie, makes no sense.
My response;
The only liars in this issue is the city! And of coarse you Chuck. Time and time again testimony has been posted here with the FACTS of who is a liar!
Testimony from code enforcement officer saying these were good landlords. Testimony from tenants saying these were good landlords. Testimony from homestead homeowners saying the city deceptively manipulated the system to deprive them of housing and their homes.
BOTTOM LINE, renters with behavioral issues in this city are met with building code inspectors who condemn them out of their housing and onto the streets. No due process what so ever. The fast track to meeting the agenda of deconcentrating poverty in the city. This thing started out with these intentions then it got out of control and common citizens who just couldn't keep up their homes fell victim to housing code enforcement.
Why do you suppose the city isn't just buying these homes the neighbors complain about? Or why isn't a non-profit coming in and buying them from the owners? The fact is it is cheaper to code compliance to the maxx and ruin the home owners life and investment with the hope they will just abandon the property. Then the city didn't have to spend a dime purchasing the home. The non-profits get a better chance of getting these homes for pennies on the dollar verses true market value.
Let's take the landlords out of this equation for a minute. Chuck, tell us the elderly people who lost their homes are liars too. Tell us all these women and children are lying too. HUNDREDS of citizens who do not know each other.
Fact is it was folks like you Chuck co signing the dumbest predatory code enforcement efforts the city has ever seen. And why, because you benefit from it.
Must be time for more links.
As far as the government being some kind of criminal enterprise, wouldn't you have thought a change of administration would discover this great conspiracy? Chris ran against Randy... Randy is the one that the lawsuit was focused on.
I know its hard but think, think real, real hard, wouldn't Chris have blown the whistle on Randy if any of the stories were true?
CHUCK
Chris is part of the problem. He sat on the city council and went along with these criminal acts for years.
I would like to see a few landlords with the know how step up and create a landlords union.
Get a list of landlords and property owners who rent, collect a union due for activities important to the union, have meetings and create a legal fund.
Ask tenants to contribute to the union.
Good way to promote unity between landlord and tenant and let the city know that the tenants are on the side of the landlords.
Jeff Matiatos
Oh, the well established and wealthy mobsters of the 20s and 30s
did alot for citizens of Chicago, creating soup lines and feeding the poor.
The city would feel real uncomfortable knowing landlords had the citizen renters in their back pockets.
Power in numbers.
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff, I have been advocating a landlords union for months. Saying the vary same things you are saying here now. These guys are a hard bunch to organize.
It wouldn't be so hard if someone would just get going on it.
Go down to the property tax division and get lists of property owners and rental properties.
Its going to have to be somewhat of a sell, but who better to be the salesman than perhalps yourself.
Maybe Frank S.
Someone to spearhead the union and keep it going.
Someone who knows how the city does things.
A union that becomes strong financially to match or exceed the capacity to withstand legal challanges from the city.
An intimidating force.
Find me a number one guy (or gal) and I will join in.
Jeff Matiatos
I already have the list Jeff. I had suggested to the landlords I did speak with they put this fee for this union right in their leases.
Hey Wilbur and Orville,
They can't be a 'union'.
They are not workers and are not collectively trying to bargain with an employer- that's the basis of a union.
They would form an Association. A 501c6 operation of who's mission is their objective. Many business and professional groups like trial lawyers, have an official association which lobbies, do political work, and hold forums on behalf of its members.
Do I have to inform you two of everything?
Its and Association you want. Like the Manufactures Association. The workers are part of AFL-CIO and SEIU and Teamsters, but the companies as a grop have a powerful lobby in their association.
Please put Frank S in charge of it. Hell, these guys can't even get along long enough to dupe their way through this trial, how are they going to come together in an association?
Eric
Thats a good start, but someone has to step forward as a leader and
get feedback from other property owners and landlords.
Circulate a petition.
Take a servey.
Applications for union president and vice president.
Offer stipends.
Treasuer.
Secratary to keep the minutes.
An administrative assistant to write letters and respond to tenants and other landlords.
Its alot more than just an idea I know, but a motivated group is all you need to get started.
So far, all you need to start is 5 members.
The union board will consist of:
1. President
2. Vice president.
3. Treasuer.
4. Administrative assistant.
5. Secretary.
After the Union expands to 15 to 20members, we can elect permanant positions in the union for president and so on.
5 members is all it takes to get going.
What would the city think about this ?
Jeff Matiatos
Bob, Bob, Bob...
Again, what is the rationale for all of this? To boot out the poor? Well, there are more poor in Saint Paul then ever. So, that didn't happen in the real world.
Or, was it to go after people with behavior issues? Then how does that explain your next sentence that there are old (very quiet) people that have lost there homes.
Do people feel that it was unfair that they were inspected and did they testify to that? Yes, but that isn't in dispute. Anyone who gets inspected thinks it sucks that they were inspected. But, does that make some evil motives for the inspections? In your paranoid state...yes. In the real world, no.
All of the people in or out of the suit that have ever lost their properties because of code issues fall into two categories, either they didn't have the money to do the improvements or they wouldn't spend the money to do the improvements. That's all there is.
You aren't going to convince a majority of the responsible landlords or developers in this town to even sit down with some of the wack jobs that think there shouldn't be code enforcement. Most property owners have little or no problems going through the inspection process.
As to the non-profits going after these properties that were condemned by the City, list them.
You make up more BS that a herd of cattle Bob.
In the real world the foreclosures have been the reason for vacant properties. Very few properties have gone vacant due to code compliance issues and those have got demo'ed and the lots are still sitting there.
Bob, I buy foreclosed properties. There are thousands of them out there. The City code people didn't make that happen. Buy a clue.
NAME THEM BOB. Name the one's forced out by the City that have been bought by non-profits. You have all of the cases. Find one where the shit you say happens all the time happened at all.
Its just not out there. If you can find even one a year in the last five years, I got that C note for Saint Matt's all warmed up.
Again all BS all the time.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
In the true sence of the word Eric, we really just want to unify.
An association would be a better title for this group.
It can be formed very easily and a powerful one could have a very large affect on local elections if the Association as you would define it, can get the tenants (voters) on their side.
I gaurentee the city officials would be nervous about this if we can get it to go.
Jeff Matiatos
Eric said;
They would form an Association. A 501c6 operation of who's mission is their objective. Many business and professional groups like trial lawyers, have an official association which lobbies, do political work, and hold forums on behalf of its members.
My response;
I think the confusion Eric is terms like... "The Tenants Union". A well know entity that is longer operating. Thank you for the information Eric.
Chuck said;
You aren't going to convince a majority of the responsible landlords or developers in this town to even sit down with some of the wack jobs that think there shouldn't be code enforcement. Most property owners have little or no problems going through the inspection process.
My response;
At no time anywhere in this blog can you find one statement where someone said they didn't want housing code enforcement. Another sorry attempt on your part to paint this list in a way contrary to what the majority here believes..
Chuck said;
As to the non-profits going after these properties that were condemned by the City, list them.
You make up more BS that a herd of cattle Bob.
My response;
Tell me you didn't make a statement to somebody you know, that you intended to buy up as many vacant lots as possible for your non-profit Chuck. Bet you would like to see a lot of these homes torn down whether they are good homes or not, because it serves your non profit.
Chuck said;
Do people feel that it was unfair that they were inspected and did they testify to that? Yes, but that isn't in dispute. Anyone who gets inspected thinks it sucks that they were inspected. But, does that make some evil motives for the inspections? In your paranoid state...yes. In the real world, no
My response;
Citizens testified to more than unfair inspections. They testified to extortion by city officials, theft, and a whole lot more. I am not a victim of the city and have no paranoia's. I am merely a messenger of hundreds of citizens who have experienced first hand the dishonesty and wrath of a city housing code inspections out of control.
Chuck said;
In the real world the foreclosures have been the reason for vacant properties. Very few properties have gone vacant due to code compliance issues and those have got demo'ed and the lots are still sitting there
My response;
Not one person here has EVER blamed all the vacant housing on code enforcement. We ALL know which homes were TARGETED by code enforcement in which the main objective was to condemn the house to get rid of the tenants. Tell us this never happened Chuck and your nose will grow.
Bob said;
At no time anywhere in this blog can you find one statement where someone said they didn't want housing code enforcement. Another sorry attempt on your part to paint this list in a way contrary to what the majority here believes..
My response;
Well, let's see they are regularly referred to as Nazi's, it is suggested that they only do targeted code enforcement and this site always expresses the belief that the City is lying. Other than that, you're right.
Bob said;
Tell me you didn't make a statement to somebody you know, that you intended to buy up as many vacant lots as possible for your non-profit Chuck. Bet you would like to see a lot of these homes torn down whether they are good homes or not, because it serves your non profit.
My response;
Bob that is so sad. I am a licensed real estate broker, that is what I do, I help people buy and sell property. Again, just because you don't know what I do or understand it doesn't mean that I am a criminal.
And some day, I would love to hear from you how you think non-profits work. Do you know that they pay taxes on all of the land they hold in the City at the same rate that everyone else does. Do you know that the CDC's that do development don't get a stipend to pay operating expenses, so, if they aren't building and selling, they are bleeding money just like the for-profit guys. You do understand that it works exactly the same way, except that a non-profit doesn't pay income taxes on the years that they make money. They just roll it back into development. Other than that they have to figure out payroll just like anyone else.
Bob said;
Citizens testified to more than unfair inspections. They testified to extortion by city officials, theft, and a whole lot more. I am not a victim of the city and have no paranoia's. I am merely a messenger of hundreds of citizens who have experienced first hand the dishonesty and wrath of a city housing code inspections out of control.
My response;
One admitted criminal drug user who is convinced that Saint Paul PD is out to get her claimed that an inspector extorted her, when he gave her the name of someone he knew in the business of buying and rehabing property (which he shouldn't have done, but in no way was ever shown at all to be extortion). This same inspector is accused of stealing a sheet of plywood from the same house.
Bob said;
Not one person here has EVER blamed all the vacant housing on code enforcement. We ALL know which homes were TARGETED by code enforcement in which the main objective was to condemn the house to get rid of the tenants. Tell us this never happened Chuck and your nose will grow.
My response;
Do you ever read this blog? That has been the focus of the blog from the start. In another thread today you suggest that all of the vacant properties are because of City code enforcement policies. It has been said over and over on the list.
Now, were properties targeted for code enforcement because there were tenants trashing the joint and suspected of criminal activity. I have no doubt.
Was my house targeted by someone because I post to this list?
At least 3 times.
...and your point is?
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
"Something to think about,
Anger is only one letter short of danger.
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people."
And "no minds" are living in denial!
Chuck said;
Bob that is so sad. I am a licensed real estate broker, that is what I do, I help people buy and sell property. Again, just because you don't know what I do or understand it doesn't mean that I am a criminal.
My response;
NOPE. don't believe for one minute you are a criminal. I think you are a nice guy. A nice guy who is looking out for his personal interest. You use your influence within the city to help create policy's which serve your interest. And now you come here to defend the policies that have gotten the city neck deep in shit.
Chuck said;
One admitted criminal drug user who is convinced that Saint Paul PD is out to get her claimed that an inspector extorted her, when he gave her the name of someone he knew in the business of buying and rehabing property (which he shouldn't have done, but in no way was ever shown at all to be extortion). This same inspector is accused of stealing a sheet of plywood from the same house.
My response;
Chuck, Chuck Chuck, shades of the truth doesn't get to the truth! The Saint Paul police threatened Nancy to become a SNITCH against some "very nice folks" until you piss them off and rat on them. Then you may find yourself and your family DEAD. City officials told Nancy if she didn't become a snitch she would be looking at a whole in the ground where her home was. They made good on their word when Nancy wouldn't be an IDIOT for them and put herself and her children in grave danger by being a snitch. The theft- The materials stolen from Nancy garage where a expensive cement mixer, numerous sheets of drywall and plywood. And the kicker is property rights advocates caught the thieves red handed and took pictures of the perpetrators of this crime when it occurred.
Chuck said;
Do you ever read this blog? That has been the focus of the blog from the start. In another thread today you suggest that all of the vacant properties are because of City code enforcement policies. It has been said over and over on the list.
My response;
Show me that statement Chuck.
"Jeff just because you don't know how the government works doesn't mean that it is run in some fantasy world of yours."
How come you pick on Jeff all the time and try to exploit his ignorance or naieveness (no cut intended Jeff) with your spiel about he doesn't know this and doesn't know that. Jeff may not know all there is to know, but who does, and further more, you don't have to know everything about how something works to know you're getting screwed. Granterd Jeff doesn't know all there is to know about the inner workings of governmetn, but he does know a lot about how the those inner workings screw people over. Jeff also knows something that you can't even comprehend. He knows that governments purpose is suppose to be to protect us.....ALL OF US, not just a few, and he's seen first hand how government violates people's rights and then lies and covers up to avoid being responsible for it.
"I know its hard but think, think real, real hard, wouldn't Chris have blown the whistle on Randy if any of the stories were true?"
That's what Chris should have done if he were smart, then he and the council could have blamed the past administration for the millions they're going to wind up paying out, but Chris couldn't do that because he sat on the council and gave the green light to this shit just like all the other council members did.
How about this one...?
"The mayor is part of the reason these vacant homes sit around blighting the city. WISE INVESTORS came here with predictions of where the housing policies would take us and these bafones in city government didn't listen to them."
-snip-
...the problem isn't the world wide mortgage foreclosure and banking system colapse, the problem is that we send code enforsement people out to pick on people.
...and Bob, again, first you have no clue what I do, but I will tell you this, the development work that I do is directed by the people in the community. I am an advocate of making sure when ever I am a part of acquiring a parcel on the East Side that the local person gets fairly treated.
Go through the records of any project I have done and see if there are any unhappy sellers. Ask them if they would recomend me to represent your interest in a sale, either to the City or to a private development.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
NO WE CAN'T GET ALONG RODNEY.
City Hall Bigots -vs- The citizens
Remember the Tenants Union Eric? What did they have to do with employers?
Chuck said;
In another thread today you suggest that all of the vacant properties are because of City code enforcement policies.
I said;
Show me the statement.
And you offered this up as proof.
I said;
"The mayor is part of the reason these vacant homes sit around blighting the city. WISE INVESTORS came here with predictions of where the housing policies would take us and these bafones in city government didn't listen to them."
My response;
You took my statement out of context. The statement you quote had nothing to do with the cause of how the homes became vacant and everything to do with why they were just sitting around blighting the city.
Why would a smart investor come to St.Paul to invest when there are thousands of other cities to invest in without having to go through all the hurdles St.Paul is enforcing on rental properties? Thats a simple anwer, they are not investing in St.Paul just look around at our neighborhoods no one is buying here.
Do you blame the investors? I don't even like the fact that I still own a home and live in St.Paul. The whole city is like living in the ghetto.
Forget buying in St. Paul, go talk to some contractors. They don't even want to work here. A firend of mine was recently trying to get someone to dosomething on his house and he had many many people tell him they did not want to work in St. Paul because it's too much hassle getting work approved by the inspectors here. This has been a bitch for years among contractors.
Anonymous said...
Bob,your blowing smoke out your ass.
5:51 PM
Just remember, "where there is smoke, there is fire"! And considering the story's citizens tell me, I have some really bad gas! I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of this "combustible explosion of the intestines".
Either would your proctologist Bob !
Are you talking about Chris Coleman and Dave Thune, kathy Lantry and the other five City Councilman?
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