St. Paul exempts itself from new housing ordinance that hindered redevelopment efforts
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posted by Bob at Thursday, February 19, 2009
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51 Comments:
New ordinance on vacant properties got in way of redevelopment efforts
By Dave Orrick
dorrick@pioneerpress.com
Updated: 02/18/2009 11:18:13 PM CST
A funny thing happened to the St. Paul Housing and Redevelopment Authority on the way to redeveloping several vacant houses in St. Paul:
It ran headfirst into St. Paul rules designed to redevelop vacant houses.
It's the latest paradoxical twist in the realm of unintended consequences as the city struggles to cure an ailing housing market.
In the fall, a new ordinance took effect that prohibited the sale of the most-derelict vacant homes unless the buyer could produce a plan — including financing — for bringing the house back up to code.
On Wednesday, the city council held a public hearing on a proposal to simply exempt the HRA from those rules. No one spoke out against it, and the council will likely approve it next week.
Because the HRA was trying to move fast to stay ahead of the vacancy problem, it wasn't drawing up individual plans for what to do with each house. When the new ordinance kicked in, the HRA was prohibited from buying the ones that needed the most work.
No numbers were available Wednesday, but Council Member Dave Thune, who chairs the HRA, said the problem threatened to undermine the housing authority's very mission.
The goal with the fall ordinance was to reduce low-grade home-flipping that might artificially inflate values but in the long term degrade the city's aging housing stock.
Or worse, a well-meaning handyman might buy a vacant house but not realize it needs tens of thousands of dollars to be brought up to safety standards, and then simply walk away from the place, leaving it to cash-strapped city inspectors and police to guard against vagrants, rodents and criminals who tend to swoop in.
Enter the HRA, a governmental body run by city council members for the purpose of leveraging government funds to save such homes or tear them down and build something better. For years, the agency has been buying vacant homes — but there were never so many.
The foreclosure explosion skyrocketed the number of vacant homes from the hundreds to past 2,000 in a matter of years. As of Feb. 2, there were 1,985 registered vacant buildings in the city, and the majority — 1,579 — are houses in the two categories that require the most fixes before they can be considered safe to occupy, city records show.
Banks and mortgage lenders agreed to give the HRA first right of refusal on many of the homes, both as a way to unload them fast and appease city officials who have been eager to sue lenders who own foreclosed and vacant homes.
"All of a sudden, we were buying properties everywhere because it's better for us to buy them than these flippers," Thune said. "But then a little while ago, holy smokes, we couldn't do it anymore."
Bob, here is the deal.
The HRA is buying the properties for two reasons, for demolition or to secure for future rehab.
The way the ordinance is written, you have to have a plan for the rehab of the building before a sale can occur. So, you have the City that is looking to acquire (pay for it) a problem property and knock it down can't show a rehab plan, because the plan is to demo the building.
So, some of these properties, sooner or later would be demo'ed through code enforcement, but why wait when if the City is willing to buy them at least the owner gets something.
The other is houses that are potentially historic that are now sitting on the vacant building list and in this economy may get demo'ed since nobody has the cash to rehab. In that case it saves a building from demo and again gets the owner something.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
I'm an investor Chuck and want to do as HRA does.Can I get the same treatment?Haven't people talked here for over 3 years about the citys heavy hand on some private property owners and a double standard on others.WOW!
Chuck you could spin a shit sandwich and make it sound and look good.
Jim
Jim, if you want to buy a house and demo it and are having problems with the ordinance give me a call at the office and I will help you out.
That is what they are trying to accomplish by allowing the HRA to be exempted. It will allow the title companies to just move ahead with the sale to the HRA.
But, call me if you have one you are interested in and I will lend a hand.
Chuck Repke
chuck,
Let me tell you something.
I was fixxing a unit couple weeks ago. The tenant got mad because I was puting a electric stove in her unit.
Because she will to pay. To used it.
She called the city on me. I forgot to pulled a demo permit and framing permit.
On wed Feb 11, 2009. I had a visted by Michael Urmann fire inspector. Not A building Offical.
And told to pull a permit and asked me who is my contractor? I said I was. He No you can not do that. Then gave my contractor who build to homes for me.
Who is my plumber? I said Ryan Plumbing. And who going to the electric gave the guy I used for my electirc work.
The next thing i know is that That . I have letter for him. By Robert Hum. tells that I had deficiency list.
1. Lower unit - SPLC 33.05- Uncertified portions of the building must not be occupied until inspected and approved by this office. All work to remodle the lower unit must be done under permit and approved before reoccupancy.
2. Lower unit- SPLC34.23, MSFC110.1- This occupancy is condemned as unfit for for human habitation. This occupancy must not be used until re-inspected and approved by this office. - All work to remodle the lower unit must be done under permit and approved before reoccuupancy.
Ok now what about Morris vs sax?
Mr Urmann Is not A bulding official and splc is clear volations of Morris vs sax.
I am planning appeal this and take them to court.
I have been landlord and builder.
for 14 years.
I forgot the city can do what they what. I have pull the right permits.
I call the city council member Mel carter. And asked for Help.
Guest what? I got no help.
Called the Mayor office and asked for help. I was told the fire inspector can do what they.
Robert H. said I will work with you. And You not to appeal it.
It will a waste of you time. need to fix your uint.
Oh forgot tell you all that I have
until March 13,2009.
Mr. Urmann said in the letter.
" You are hereby notified that the following deficiency list must be corrected immediately. A reinspection will be made on or after March 13,2009.
That tells me I have only until
March 13, 2009. Robert H. said that has much time I need to fix it right. Then Why did Mr. Urmann
put a time period in this letter?
And now the city can do what ever it wants.
And I do work a full time job.
Who cares?
I will be at city convention in March 21,2009. I am delg. for ward 5 pri.6.
Mr. Mayor I had a lot of Questions for you on that day.
I will be contract Mr. Shoemake
soon. Asked him take the city to court.
The DFL is in full control now that Obammy is in, so shut up you stooge and fix that crack house up before there's a shortage of drugs on the street.
Chuck instead of you helping Jim on a back room deal why don't you lobby the assholes at city hall to make everybody exempt if they want to do as HRA does?
Randy
The city gives itself and unfair advantage they are not willing to give to the citizens.....a money making and wealth building advantage.....at a time when people need the money and the opportunity the most.
They're nothing short of being Racketeers!
Jim give Chuck a call like I called Dave Thune and call came to my home and help everyone cover up the issue about poison insulation.
If your a crook, call and these city people that work closely with developers to make you money.
But if you are a honest person that is just trying to get a problem resolved, they might not help you.
If you are a poor disabled minority, people in that DFL party are in the take.
Hey Chuck, can you get me a home.
We all see that over the years of me calling for help with the indoor air quaity in my home and people like Norm Coleman and the people conected with that great DFL Party and their ways to shut people up with telling then to shut up OR you will be put away.
Why was that chuck?
Was it because 200,000 homes in Minnesota my have the same stuff and the law suits would be astanomical?
If I was any thing besides German or Native American, would I got some true help?
My opinion will never chage about you and your kind.
Bill Dahn
www.BillDahn.com
www.BillDahn.Blogspot.com
How can Thune chair the HRA and vote to exempt the HRA ?
He should recuse himself from voting on any ordinance to exempt HRA.
I say this attempt to exempt HRA borders on unequal enforcement of laws wich in Minnesota, is illegal.
Someone sue to prevent this exemption.
Jeff Matiatos
Here is that law folks :
The Equal protection Clause of the Unitef States Constitution prohibits discriminatory enforcement of non-discriminatory laws See Minneapolis vs. Buschette 307 Minn. 60 at 64 240 N.W. 2d 500 at 502 (1976).
If I were you Thune, I would consult the City Attorney.
Jeff Matiatos
Thanks Jeff
Hi all
I went to St.Paul Public Housing when I lost my home, and who sat on the Board and had his picture was in their brushers was Sheriff Bob Fletcher.
I called and complained that this is a conflict of interests by Fletcher to have a Sheriff Sale on my home and then be one of the people in the program to find me housing.
That made him lose that job, we have the message they left on my recorder saying that Bob Fletcher no longer sits on the board.
Double dipping and conflicts, and' and' and' and' what other committee do these double dipping two face people sit on and getting away with? "Murder by Torment"!
Your welcome Bill.
Jeff Matiatos
Wow, so many questions..
First Jeff the city council is the HRA. So, yes everyone on the city council is on the Housing and Redevelopment Authority board they are all the same people. Thune and the other 6 council people can't recuse themselves because there wouldn't be anyone left to vote on the measure they are the council and the HRA (they are also the library board).
...and this is the Housing and Redevelopment Authority not Saint Paul Public Housing Authority... that is something else entirely so 7:36 you lived in a PHA home not an HRA home, the HRA doesn't rent housing.
So, in effect the City is saying by this ordinance change that they never intended when they were going to buy a building for demo that it would get slowed down by them having to approve a plan for themselves. If they didn't do this ordinance change DSI would do a sign off on every sale to the City... and you would bitch about that.
Les... in Saint Paul there are combined inspections for fire and building code. So, fire does have the authority to write up building code issues.
Bill... I didn't cover up anything. The City of Saint Paul has nothing to do with RAP or your free bees that you got from that non-profit group. I tried to help you but you were such a bully scaring young women to get your rocks off that the City Attorney told Thune that I had to stop talking to you because they were getting a restraining order against you so that you wouldn't scare any more women.
Again, the point of this is to allow the City to buy properties on the open market for demo, rather than having to wait for them to fall into such disrepair that they get demo'ed by DSI.
For all of those "takings people" this is what you would have wanted the City to do. Buy the houses at market prices for demo.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Ya, they took a sheriff off the PHA board and put St.Paul cops on it. Stacking the deck !
So your telling us Chuck that the city buys the homes for demos rather than finding a way to maintain its tax base through rehab ?
Well, lets see, the city makes every effort to keep citizens from buying properties for rehab because the city thinks these folks are just flippers and really just out for a profit ?
I say if the purpose of this local legislation is to circumvent interested citizens from buying vacant properties, their interefering with trade laws and regulations affecting the free market system.
You said you thought the intent of this legislation was to gain power to buy properties for demo .
This legislation would interefere with prospective sellers and buyers of homes rights to do buisness.
For God sakes, don't they already have a law or ordinance saying you can't even sell your home unless it passes a DSI inspection with flying colors ?
If they do, I am willing to bet that if every person on the council who owned a home in St.paul wanted to sell, they couldn't because their homes would not pass a DSI inspection.
Again, not only are they voting for an ordinance to exempt HRA from city inspections, but are violating the equal protection clause by exempting themselves while demanding compliance from others.
I didn't think St.Paul waited for anything when it came to home repair. Must no longer have faith in DSI were they now want to just demo the building.
Its bad local legislation.
Just how much are we ( the tax payers ) paying for these homes the city wants to demo ?
If the city goes to court to abate a property and forces the sale for $1.00, certainly any home even in some form of serious disrepair, is worth more than that.
So I guess what you really need to do instead is have the city be involved in every home purchasing transaction before the sale is complete.
This brings us back to the TISH reports.
This is how the city knows what propertys they want demoed.
They also get inside info from DSI and backdoor decisions are made to demo certain properties.
They send the Goons out there and there its is.
Its all starting to come together now !
Does anyone know if " Safe House " is still operating ?
Did anyone know Dorthy Hoskins or Gene Poppler ?
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff Luv your posts google the case
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=Minneapolis+vs.+Buschette+307+Minn.+60+at+64+240+N.W.+2d+500+at+502+%281976%29.&btnG=Google+Search&aq=-1&oq=
By helping each other we can beat the city with their own LAWS???
Jeff you making me do research its hard to 1976 these unpublished opinions using precedant are unconstitutionally vague
http://books.google.com/books?id=czQHNqaDN4wC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=Minneapolis+vs.+Buschette+1976&source=bl&ots=NZDSTWZ3M8&sig=5ceoZqIaOMYb4tP7Rmb0erheMOc&hl=en&ei=H_ieSaj1KOGNmQefltz3DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result
What the city is doing is a violation of the Equal Protection clause of the constitution of the country. Aside fron the rico and fair housing stuff, the landlords are suing the city for this also! How can the city put restrictions on the private sector making money and having development opportunities and then create an unfair advantage for government by exempting themselves? There's a rat in the wood pile here Chuck.
St. Paul also created unfair and illegal advatages for itself with respect to how they treat the private sector verses the PHA. From what I've read, the landlords have mroe than shown the city turned a blind eye while PHA allowed their property to slide into slum status while going after the private sector very aggresivly....to the point where they even applied illegal code complainces against the private sector.
From the bowels of our video's
Go get em guys
working on this site all day long
Bobby you've got valuable info in your archives but hard to find.
NOt stealing your thunder,"but for" Lets get em
http://shar1058.multiply.com/video/item/6/St.Paul_City_Council_Election
Your city is on the Highway to Hell Repke. It's only a matter of time now. But wait, I hear there's more lawsuits in the works. Looks like they're going to be to hell and back many times before this is over and these thug dictator wannabes decide to start following the law.
Die hard Democrats, Al franken appeared on an episode of Kojak.
What role did he play ?
Jeff Matiatos
12:44 WHO THE F*** CARES!
Not you obvioulsy.
Jeff Matiatos
Eric said this about you and the two DFers might be up on something in town, but these guys wouldn't got to fare if their DFers friends at city hall didn't keep throwing them the bone.
.
Eric said this about Jeff -- You don't know jack about how these things work.
.
No one knows anything but Eric and Chuck, the two think they are superior.
And that's as far as it goes I'm afraid. They either think we are the stupidest things since onions, or they are. As an example, Chuck continually rags about how the landlord lawsuits are finished and hangs his whole spin on what the Judge says in her order. When you take a look at her order, and then look at the Motion that was filed to have the Judge change the Order, it's clear as day that the Judge was wrong because she's basing her BS on saying that the lanldords never said this and never did that, but looking at the appeal, the landlord tell the Judge she was wrong and then go on to tell her all the places they did do what the Judge says they didn't so. None the less, Eric and Chuck would have you dis-believe what you see and read with your own eyes! Just trust them, they are the "Oricles" of the city and know it all. Too bad they can't mimmick inteligence once in a while.
Just trust them, they are the "Oricles" of the city and know it all. Too bad they can't mimmick inteligence once in a while.
One way I do that is to spell 'Oracle', 'mimic' and 'intelligence' correctly.
Actually, we're not allowed to just post anything on trust. Nobody, not one person in almost three years thoroughly back up what they say with links and in-depth explanations. No one.
Here's where we stand.
Chuck, Amanda and myself do not believe there is a RICO case. So far, your side hasn't been able to prove its case. Regardless of what judge said what, you are at the point where you haven't proven your case.
Because of your inability to support your case, and your lack of knowledge of city operations, you have created the DFL party as your enemy and the faceless reason you can't get a break. Chuck and I are somewhat active in the DFL, so once again we're in a position where we are correcting the likes of you on how it really works.
You talked about regime change and how you were going to over throw the council, and the only thing that happened is you lost one moderate DFLer for a more Progressive DFL. Congrats.
Now, you're talking about going after the Mayor. You don't have a candidate, money or an issue that people will buy, but you are bumping your gums about taking on mayor and the only desire to do so lies with the disgruntled landlords and John Krenik.
The real problem here is that the people of St Paul are not with you. Homeowners and Renters both want tough standards and enforcement put upon these wayward landlords (they are that because everyone of them admitted to having problems with their properties under oath).
Frame it any way you like, the bottom line is that you are on the opposite side of the people.
Eric
Everyone everywhere has problems with their proerty Eric. It's an on going thing no matter if it's a rental or owner occupied. So what?
So why sue the city when you are in the wrong for not keeping your property up? That's 'so what'.
Why try to put forth this bs suit, which has done nothing but make more people aware of the looseness of the city ordinances. It only makes them want to tighten the rules.
Eric
Trouble is that every property in the city has code problems. That's the way codes are. That's why we need professionals, not idiots, to interpret and enforse them.
And what about the code inspectors that lie about violations that don't exist, is that OK in your mind Eric.
How about a city that wants to drag people through civil court actions on fabricated charges, do you think that's OK too?
Fixing the court ahead of time......I'm sure you think this is OK too as long as the right side wins huh?
You're a hypocrite.
Frame it any way you like, the bottom line is that you are on the opposite side of the people.
Eric
My response;
What a crock of shit. With less than 16% of the population voting I would hardly call that a mandate Eric. We also have to consider that many who do vote, are ignorant to the policy's causing the dilemma we are having with housing.
Bob saw this first hand as I remember when he went to some meeting with Bill MeGouey and started talking to neighbors about what the city is doing to people with repsect to the illegal tactics they use. City officials tried to throw them out of the meeting but the people wanted to hear about it and they DID NOT agree with the city's "ends justifies the means" mentality.
The crap Eric spews on here only reflect the mind set of the rich and elite in the city. The rest of you are just servants and pawns for the government to use and manipulate and lie to.
Well Ralph, get off your ass and got and go do something about it.
Last November we had about five-six times that vote. How did they vote?
If its a crock of shit, I'll see what you and your friends can do. Tell the people of Saint Paul how you want less code enforcement on shitty properties. Let's see how that goes over with homeowners AND renters.
8:44
The courts aren't fixed, why would your boys waste large sums of money trying to plead their case. Besides, how does wage earning public attorney's fix a federal bench? Why appeal if its fixed.
The landlords admit to having code violations. They admit it in their own testimony. They are complaining that they were unfairly targeted. But, again, they admit to having code violations.
These guys are the plaintiffs dragging us through court. Now they have separated their suit to further drag us through court. I say us, because the city represents the people. The ordinances are set for the people by a group elected by the people. The landlords are representing their financial interest.
Look up definition of hypocrite, you've got it all wrong even if what you said was true.
Eric
10:30
I have no idea how the rich think. Ask Bill Cullen about the rich and what they think. He's speaks their language.
Eric
"Tell the people of Saint Paul how you want less code enforcement on shitty properties. Let's see how that goes over with homeowners AND renters."
I think homeowners and renters wouold be willing to settle for honest code enforcement. Landlords probably would too.
"The courts aren't fixed, why would your boys waste large sums of money trying to plead their case."
Bob's posted testimony under oath here from city officials that says the court was fixed.
"the city represents the people. The ordinances are set for the people by a group elected by the people. The landlords are representing their financial interest."
And when the ordinance violates people's civil rights, the people pay and pay big.
By the way, could you tell us where the law is that says that the city could put these guys through a code compliance arther than just repair the property to the city code?
Eric, I bet you have never experienced our courts in action have you ?
Ever been involved any case where the judge has abused its discretion ?
It happens all the time as you can go to the court of appeals website and type "Abuse of discretion" and get hundreds of cases.
You don't understand the games being played between judges and attorneys and how judges, who know they have judicial immunity, abuse their autjority to save the states ass against pro-se litigants when they sue government entities.
I have read a fair
share of court cases where some Pro Se litigants couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag let alone submit anything to a court that even resembles accurate law.
However, your saying courts are notcorrupt is as they say, without merit since you can google judicial corruption and find a shit load of it.
Your vain to think it doesn't happen in a large city like this.
Most of our St.Paul Judges have been on the bench for a long time.
As I said before, you don't know jack about what goes on in our courts.
Jeff Matiatos
Eric- If its a crock of shit, I'll see what you and your friends can do. Tell the people of Saint Paul how you want less code enforcement on shitty properties. Let's see how that goes over with homeowners AND renters.
Ralph-
Never said I wanted less code enforcement. Why you lie here so much Eric? We want honest government. We do not have that now.
I am not convinced that the judges are corrupt. In most cases they have to go on the information they are provided to make their decision. Most of the information is provided by officials of some sort and that is where the misleadinding information comes in.
I have experienced this personally but did get the decision overturned through the court of appeals by providing my side with substantial documented evidence and expensive attorney fees. The end result was worth it the county employee was investigated after the 3 panel judge decision added these footnotes;
Different topic but an example...
[1] The county provides no substantive basis for its motion for attorney fees, other than Minn. R. Civ. App. P. 139.06. Rule 139.06 is “procedural only and [does] not provide a substantive basis for claiming fees on appeal.” Id. 1998 advisory comm. cmt.
[2] The county claims that appellant was served with a copy of the summons and petition by mail, and that she therefore received actual notice. The record, however, fails to support the county’s claim of service by mail. The county social worker merely alleges that he sent appellant “letters informing [her] of the proceedings and requesting her current information.” The social worker carefully avoided specifying the content of these letters and did not submit a copy of the letter.
[3] These omissions from the social worker’s affidavit border on misrepresentations or “other misconduct” that might justify relief under Minn. R. Juv. Protect. P. 46.02(c). Cf. R.L.M. v. Moon, 410 N.W.2d 925, 927 (Minn. App. 1987) (rejecting father’s claim that county committed fraud by alleging that it had no knowledge of his whereabouts prior to the termination hearing, where county presented affidavits from employees who alleged that no one had had any contact with father, no one knew of his whereabouts, and father failed to present any credible evidence to the contrary), review denied (Minn. Oct. 28, 1987). By omitting information that was not just relevant, but critical to giving the district court an accurate picture of appellant’s contacts with the county, the social worker effectively hampered the court’s ability to make an informed decision not only on appellant’s whereabouts, but also on the ultimate issues of whether “grave and weighty reasons” exist to terminate appellant’s parental rights and whether termination is in the child’s best interests. See In re Welfare of J.R., 655 N.W.2d 1, 9 (Minn. 2003); In re Welfare of M.D.O., 462 N.W.2d 370, 375 (Minn. 1990).
Eric said;
I say us, because the city represents the people. The ordinances are set for the people by a group elected by the people. The landlords are representing their financial interest.
My response;
The city represents the citizens who show up at district council meetings. A handful of people who usually never attend any meetings until they have a bitch.
And even these citizens get told their concerns mean nothing when the city wants it's way.
City Councilman Lee Helgen came to the Town Hall here a couple years back and invited us to a neighborhood meeting on the East side. He told us we would be laughed out of the meeting with our stories of the corruption in city hall.
Well I took him up on his offer and he tried to throw me and Bill McGaughey of the Watchdog News out of the meeting because he was faced with the truth. And NO citizens weren't laughing or yelling at us. They were very concerned! At this meeting a fella was speaking out against rental properties of any kind. I am as street smart as they come and I felt this guy was a plant. All of you should of seen Code Enforcement Officer Magners face when he got the Watchdog News paper we circulated. Just about shit his pants.
The district councils are nothing more than an extension of the bureaucracy in city hall, PERIOD! These district councils are suppose to bipartisan, they aren't, they are nothing more than political pawns.
The Mooseheads Truth in code compliance.
Now we're getting somewhere, apparently I have to cuss it up like Swiftee around here.
Ralph, when I make statements, they are generally sweeping because everyone but a few hide behind anonymous and I don't know who is who. Most of the people cannot tell you what the lawsuits are about. They think its about code enforcement lying about violations. That is not one of the things being considered in the suit. There is admission of violations. The landlords are saying they have been unfairly targeted.
That's tough to prove since the system of enforcement is complaint based for the most part. Someone has to call in a complaint. There just aren't enough inspectors. In a perfect world, there would be enough inspectors to do inspections monthly or quarterly across the whole city. That ain't going to be cost effective for anyone. So, it's a complaint based system. Like a petty criminal, once you get caught doing something over and over, you are likely to be scrutinized much closer as time progresses.
I've been saying for three years that there are probably some bad players on the city payroll, just like in any department like the police or the meter enforcers. I would not and cannot defend that. One case in particular would be Nancy O's place. I stand with her that she got a bad deal.
These suits are not about bad players who discriminate, they are saying that the bad action and perhaps illegal actions are orchestrated regularly as the normal way of doing business, with the city in general condoning those actions. They are saying the city condones those actions as a way to rid the city of their clientele.
That's where I have no doubt these landlords are wrong and have some ulterior motive. Why go RICO when you could have named and even worked with the Feds to set up a sting (if you think that doesn't work, look at the Sheriffs Office and two top deputies caught on film messing up)?
So, lets get back to fair enforcement. I want that too. I don't like the complaint based system because there are neighbors who call the cops over minor or imagined infractions just because they don't like the people living there, or they don't like having a rental property on their block. Or they don't like the race or class of the people living there. I saw it and caught it on the district council. DSI listened and got to know who some of these neighbors were and acted accordingly to their complaints. One of the properties that had some unfair race-based calls was owned on the East side by one of the big wigs over at the Watchdog.
Call it bullshit, but that my response.
Eric
Bob,
The district councils are not supposed to be bipartisan. That would indicate that there are two sides. There are about 100 sides and areas these people come from. There has been turnover regularly at the district council level, except in the more middle class neighborhoods where there are hoops to jump through to run and serve.
On the Eastside, the five district councils over here have regular turnover and many people who have just showed up with a couple of people on the election night have been elected to their board.
When I was on the council and President, I don't think you'll hear the city council members say that we were a rubber stamp. We were not. Martin Owings was there when I first got there and he paid attention the years I was President. He'll tell you, even with our disagreement, I took issues to city hall with same aggressiveness that people say I displayed in meetings. Many of the 17 councils across the city do the same.
I would say that back in the 80's these council were sort of the minor leagues for individuals who wanted to go on into city or county government. Sometime in the early 2000's my generation started getting on these council and brought them back to their original mission, representing the neighbors and providing direct access to city action.
You have contrary evidence, I'm interested in seeing it. I've always said that the danger with councils is getting too comfortable there and them becoming social affairs for friends.
Some (maybe 5 of 17) have become that, I won't name them, not my job. I'm just saying that they are not what you portray them to be overall.
Eric
Eric said;
I've been saying for three years that there are probably some bad players on the city payroll, just like in any department like the police or the meter enforcers. I would not and cannot defend that. One case in particular would be Nancy O's place. I stand with her that she got a bad deal.
Thank you Eric it means a lot to me to hear someone believes in me and you are correct there are always some bad players mixed in with the good. The 9:49am posting and case was mine I forgot to sign my name to it. I had ran into some bad players within the Ramsey County Child Services area as well but I did manage to prove myself and win the case through an appeal. That was my main focus during my challenges versus the house, my children were priority.
Nancy O.
Eric said;
Bob,
The district councils are not supposed to be bipartisan. That would indicate that there are two sides. There are about 100 sides and areas these people come from.
My response;Thank you for the clarification of the word bipartisan Eric. I got carried away knowing there is only two major political parties struggling for control over these district councils.
None the less, the majority of citizens are not represented at these district councils. And the fact remains the councils are political pawns. All of us who follow politics in the city are aware of this.
Bob said... And the FACT remains the councils are political pawns. ANYONE in the know is aware of this.
Wow, I have been involved one way or another in district councils since 1972 and I don't have a clue what you are talking about.
You know what I am doing today in my roll as a District council staff person Bob, I am going down to City Hall to argue in support of a business owner being able to get a variance for a sign because at their last board meeting the District Council voted to support the variance. I am going downtown to help a small business person, "fight City Hall."
How is that being a political pawn?
I did the same thing two weeks ago for a neighborhood Catholic church that wanted an electronic sign.
And, a month ago I helped someone get a parking variance.
You know what Bob, there aren't Democrat or Republican pot holes, or sign variances.
Anyone that lives in the neighborhood can get elected to these boards and what they find out soon enough is that the main jobs of the District Council is to review land use issues, to plan for the future development of the area and to try as hard as possible with limited resources to inform the neighborhood about what is going on in the community.
There isn't anything "political" about it. There is no secret handshake, no group that has the "in." They are just your neighbors Bob. The only difference is that they are willing to work together to try to improve their neighborhood.
I have seen Democrats and Republicans serve on the boards, but it doesn't take long for the partisanship to end and for them to realize they are dealing with neighborhood concerns.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
There isn't anything "political" about it. There is no secret handshake, no group that has the "in." They are just your neighbors Bob. The only difference is that they are willing to work together to try to improve their neighborhood.
I have seen Democrats and Republicans serve on the boards, but it doesn't take long for the partisanship to end and for them to realize they are dealing with neighborhood concerns.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
My response;
I hear differently, and so do many other folks Chuck. Even the eggheads over at SPIF tried to grapple with this issue when the Highland Republicans took over the Highland District council. Look at the fit all you dflers had when Jerry Trooien organized an effort on the West side. You can't spin the merry go round fast enough on this Chuck. It is nice to hear a socialist like you is helping capitalist. Keep up the good work.
Bob - do you know any of the "Republicans" from the Highland District council? Ask them if they thought the work of the district council was political once they got there.
I spent a bunch of time on the phone with them giving them suggestions on best practices for managing their finances and other board responsibilities. The fact that a bunch of other people who don't know spit about district councils wet their pants over a change of leadership at one of the District makes no difference.
And as to the West Side change in leadership, yes, the issue was Trooien's proposal, but the leadership came from folks like Don Luna and Gilbert de la O - long time west side activists. Again, just because some freaked out didn't make the organization "political pawns" they still had to deal with the same neighborhood issues.
It is healthy to see hundreds of people get interested in the District Council. People should feel that they own their neighborhood. That is the point of them.
...and you'd be surprised how much business advocacy I do. I am on several business association boards and promote and assist East Side businesses.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Where you find the time to do all this shit Repke? You must be getting rich man!
4:13 - I have 3 or 4 jobs depending on how you count them. The non-profits don't pay much, so I do more...
Chuck
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