10 year old fatally stabs his father
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posted by Bob at Friday, May 25, 2007
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17 Comments:
Neighbors hear loud fight before boy, 10, fatally stabs his father
BY NANCY YANG AND JOHN BREWER
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 05/25/2007 11:49:02 AM CDT
A 10-year-old fatally stabbed his father early this morning following an argument between his parents in their St. Paul home, police and neighbors said.
Police were called shortly after 1 a.m. to a small apartment building in the 1800 block of East Seventh Street, St. Paul police spokesman Tom Walsh said.
Neighbor Danny Cline said he heard the man and a woman inside an apartment arguing for three hours.
Cline, who was at home barbecuing with a friend, said he kept going into the hallway to check on the family because he knew there were children in the apartment. Another neighbor, Loretta McCray, said there were two boys and a girl in the household.
About 3:30 a.m., Cline said he woke up to screaming and yelling. The woman was saying, " 'Oh my God, he stabbed his dad, he stabbed his dad, he stabbed his dad,' " Cline said.
The boy was "hysterical," Cline said, and was yelling, " 'I stabbed my dad, the police are going to take me.' "
Margaret Taylor, who lives across the hall from the victim, said the man had been drinking at a bar earlier in the night when he came back to the building about 2:30 a.m.
When he came back - he lived in a different unit in the building - he knocked on her door and talked to her about how much he loved his kids, Taylor said.
The boy has been released to an adult and police are investigating. Charges have not yet filed.
Walsh declined to identify the boy or the father.
Is this a case of domestic abuse?
Boy's will defend their mothers!
I don't see what more it could be than this. I guess we will have to wait and see.
I will tell you something though, ANY man gets involved with this woman he better not be abusive she may have a ruthless little defender here.
Released to his parents? Another murderer walks free in St Paul!
Boss says man drank heavily before being stabbed to death by son, 10
BY NANCY YANG AND JOHN BREWER
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 05/25/2007 01:14:33 PM CDT
A 10-year-old boy fatally stabbed his father early this morning following an argument between his parents in their St. Paul home, police and neighbors said.
Co-workers and neighbors identified the man killed as Thomas Christopher "T.C." Simmons, 34.
After the stabbing, authorities released the boy to the custody of a "responsible adult," police spokesman Tom Walsh said. Walsh declined to say whether investigators believe the boy acted in self-defense.
Tony Jones, a manager at a Subway shop where Simmons worked, said he and some co-workers invited Simmons out to Club Cristal on Thursday night. Jones said Simmons stayed at the bar from about 10:30 p.m. to 2 a.m. and drank at least three shots of tequila, two shots of gin and a beer.
Simmons initially didn't want to go out Thursday night, Jones said.
"The sad part about it is I don't think he wanted to go out that much," Jones said. "We feel bad we asked him to go out with us."
Jones said Simmons spoke at the club about recent troubles with his 10-year-old son. Jones said Simmons asked for advice about disciplining the boy.
"I said, 'You've got to put them in line and be there for them,' " Jones said.
Jones described Simmons as a good worker who often spoke about his kids and was well-liked at the shop.
Police were called at 3:40 a.m. to a three-story apartment building at 1871 E. Seventh St. Neighbors said Simmons stayed in a unit above the apartment where his children and their mother lived.
Neighbor Danny Cline said he heard a man and a woman inside an apartment arguing for several hours. Cline, who was at home barbecuing with a friend, said he kept going into the hallway to check on the family because he knew there were children in the apartment. Another neighbor, Loretta McCray, said there were two boys and a girl in the home.
About 3:30 a.m., Cline said he woke up to screaming and yelling. The woman was saying, " 'Oh my God, he stabbed his dad, he stabbed his dad, he stabbed his dad,' " Cline said.
The boy was "hysterical," Cline said, and was yelling, " 'I stabbed my dad, the police are going to take me.' "
Margaret Taylor, who lives across the hall from Simmons, said Simmons knocked on her door about 2:30 a.m. Friday. She said he appeared drunk and vomited in her bathroom.
Taylor said she told Simmons, "Dude, go home. Go to sleep." Simmons told her he'd downed seven to eight shots of alcohol. Taylor also said Simmons spoke about how much he loved his kids.
Taylor said Simmons was not a violent man.
"I know it was because he was drinking," she said.
Geez Eric you seem to jumping to conclusions. Sounds like the fight may have been over and the kid jumped his unconscious dad. Better let the facts come out before you make any decisions.
You also better check to see if who the kid's friends with - if it's a big shot city person the kid will get off no matter what the real story is about.
Hey 2:19 was right law says you can't kill people unless YOU are in danger of great bodily harm. If the guy was asleep he doesn't sound harmful.
3:11,
I wouldn't want you to let the facts get in the way of your agenda. So skip this post.
For everyone else, he is just plain wrong on the law and the use of deadly force. You can also use deadly force if someone else is in danger of great bodily harm, the state statute says specifically:
"609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.
The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when
necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the
actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in
the actor's place of abode."
Comments and attitudes like 3:11 and 2:19 (the same person of course) are why women tend to die in domestic abuse situations. Cops hands are tied as well. Most times it takes the people around the victim to stop the situation.
I'm sure this woman could have used a son like the ten year old in the above story:
http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1206877.html
to 4:49----don't lay these dead women at mny doorstep asshole. They're dyin because we have a system that doesn't work. I did my part once adn what i got for it was a St Paul cop coming out and telling me it was none of my business after he had already made up his mind that it was the womans fault and proceeded to tell her so. By the way, I am not 3:11 either.
6:28, who's responsibility is it to change a broken system that leaves our mothers, sisters and daughters terrorized until they meet an untimely death?
It may not be 'your' mother, sister or daugher but, they are that to someone.
You find it in yourself to make a stupid and callous joke about it, then when you are met with the seriousness of domestic abuse, you inform us all that you once upon a time dialed 911 to stop a fight and since a cop lipped off to you, you've done your part in society. So, what ever happened to the woman?
You don't get it both ways. You don't want to be criticized for what you say then, shut your piehole or, know what the hell you're talking about before you shoot off.
Eric M.
Has anyone even given the whole situation enough thought to think maybe the life in this home has had many issues prior to this incident. It may be a perfect example of a mother feeling she has no where else to go where she could afford to be on her own, which left her basically trapped in a bad situation.
The boy... of course he will defend his mother if she is being abused, remember this is a child we are talking about, a childs mind and thought process at age 10 is still developing. This child most likely reacted in the only way he knew how to, if he has witnessed violence in his family that is how he has learned to respond to anger, by violence. Until the facts and details of the situation come out and are available to the public, this should be veiwed as a tragedy and traumatic experience for this child.
Nancy
KSTP ch 5 just reported the boy was defending his mother and the police said he is unlikely to face charges.
Really tough for a young mind to determine how much trouble his mom was in. He had a right to defend his mother.
I hope they all get counciling.
I am sure he will miss his Dad and this is a very tough situation.
Maybe if he had some mentoring in his life or someone committed to giving him a good upbringing, he would have thought about calling the police or a neighbor before picking up a knife. In a few years he'll be reaching for a gun and people will still be defending him. I'm afraid it's too later for this youngster. If he'll pick up a knife against his own dad, it has to make you wonder how he will act at school with one of your kids, or maybe even you when he moves in next door in 10 years.
11:08, I have to agree with you some.
This child has probably been conditioned to violence over a period of time witnessing family abuse.
This is why I said this child needs counseling. I am confident the authorities will make sure this kid gets the psychological care he needs. I am also sure his mother will be required to be involved in this counseling.
Kids at these young ages are very hard to hold accountable for their actions. Their minds are 'blanks' we as parents fill in all the voids to hopefully teach our children to be good people with empathy for others.
From reports this seems to be an abusive home. Among the loving moments in this home there was also a conditioning to violence.
How could anybody expect this kid to be able to make rational decisions without the tools emotionally to meet these challenges.
His father abusing his mother is not a lesson for a 10 year old boy. One thing the abuse taught him for sure was that Dad could control Mom with abuse. I can control Dad with abuse so he don't hurt Mom.
It sounds as though this man taught his son to be violent. Very possible he has some liability in his demise. There is hope for this young boy.
When I was young I pointed a shot gun at my step father for raping my sister. I would of shot him if it hadn't been for my mother shielding him and talking me to my senses.
My point is today, I am an aged man with bountiful empathy for others. I haven't physically fought with another man in over 25 years. I was a violent person in to my 20's. I do not abuse women period! Never will. My dad never hit my Mom, my step father did. My Dad never even wooped me or my sisters. He didn't believe in violence.
I hope this young man doesn't grow up to abuse the women in his life.I am also sure that there is some example of good behavior from people around him that he has drawn upon. He isn't some animalistic trained killer by nature I am sure.
Family violence is a BIG BUMMER! EVERYONE IS A LOSER. The family the community.
Lately the news papers have really been printing the doom and gloom of violence across the metro. A mixture of domestic death and gang related violence stories. Depressing, make's a person long for a Montana mountain cabin.
It used to be oeaceful here. That was when people did what was right and not what was "politcaly advantageous." The Police even enforced the laws fairly, and people felt they could trust them. Not any more, they'll hang you guilty or innocent just to raise their "stats." I remember Vic Tedesco going out himself and fixing something cause public works couldn't get to it soon enough for him. Everything is political in St Paul, and it sucks.
Barbara Winn's children might have saved their mother's life, if they did the same thing to Aaron Foster.
Abuse to women has been happening, scene the beginning of time.
We have more love for our mother's, because they gave us birth.
There is a greater bond between a child and their mother, that iswhy "Mother's Day" is such a big thing compare to "Farther's Day".
We all love our dad, but in a different way.
We get involved in a man, abusing a woman on the streets.
Because the woman, is usually just defending herself.
Barbara Winn's family, grew up without their mother.
Because of Aaron Foster, Her boyfriend.
Bill Dahn for ward 2
http://www.billdahn.blogspor.com
Bill that is all so very true and a sad ordeal, I do beleive that the Winn children were brought up in a much more stable environment than this 10 yr old boy. The other issue I would be will to bet is that if one of the Winn children would of defended their mother legally it would of been handled in a much harsher way for the Winn children just because of who it involved (Mr.Foster having Mr. Finney as a close friend). Situations such as many of these should have legal action, protection and resources for the families before they escalate to theses measures. It seems that domestic violence is once again on the rise along with all violent crimes.
Nancy
'I stabbed my dad'
Thomas Simmons came home drunk early Friday in St. Paul. First, he stopped at a neighbor's. Then, he argued with his children's mother. Soon, he lay dying - and his young son was screaming.
BY JOHN BREWER
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 05/26/2007 09:45:19 AM CDT
A St. Paul police car waits Friday outside an apartment building, where a 10-year-old boy reportedly fatally stabbed his father after an argument between his parents. The victim, Thomas Simmons, 34, had been out drinking with co-workers before the fatal confrontation. (JEAN PIERI, Pioneer Press)A 10-year-old boy stabbed his drunken father to death in a St. Paul apartment early Friday morning after watching his parents argue, police and neighbors said.
Neighbor Danny Cline said he saw the father, Thomas Christopher Simmons, bleeding in a hallway and heard the frantic boy shouting.
"He was screaming, 'I stabbed my dad! The police are going to take me!'" Cline said.
Police released the boy into the care of a "responsible adult."
"There is no certainty that a crime was committed," police spokesman Tom Walsh said.
Before the stabbing, Simmons, 34, a Subway sandwich shop worker with a history of domestic violence, had been drinking with co-workers at a St. Paul nightclub, his boss said. He came home about 2:30 a.m. so drunk he vomited in neighbor Margaret Taylor's bathroom, Taylor said.
Taylor said she told Simmons, "Dude, go home. Go to sleep."
She said Simmons told her he'd drunk seven or eight shots of alcohol. Taylor also said Simmons spoke about how much he loved his kids. Simmons stayed in a unit above the apartment where his children and their mother lived.
Neighbors said they tried to intervene as the couple fought, only to have Simmons tell them to butt out. A short time later, Simmons lay bleeding.
"He reached out to me and said, 'Man, can you please help me?' " Cline said.
Blood from Simmons' wound "was pumping through his fingers," Cline said.
Police arrived at the apartment building at 1871 E. Seventh St. shortly before 4 a.m. It is not clear why the boy stabbed his father or whether the boy was acting to protect himself or his family, including his mother and two siblings. Walsh declined to say whether investigators believe the boy acted in self-defense.
No one under 14 years old can be charged as an adult in Minnesota. Under state law, courts can label children delinquent, order therapy, send them to live in group homes and place them under court supervision until age 19, Anoka County Attorney Bob Johnson said.
Neighbors and co-workers attributed Friday morning's fight to alcohol.
"I know it was because he was drinking," Taylor said.
Tony Jones, a manager at the Subway shop at Old Hudson Road and White Bear Avenue, where Simmons worked, said he and co-workers invited Simmons to Club Cristal on Thursday night. Jones said Simmons stayed at the bar from about 10:30 p.m. to 2 a.m. and drank at least three shots of tequila, two shots of gin and a beer.
"The sad part about it is I don't think he wanted to go out that much," Jones said. "We feel bad we asked him to go out with us."
Jones said Simmons spoke at the club about recent troubles with his 10-year-old son. Jones said Simmons asked for advice about disciplining the boy.
"I said, 'You've got to put them in line and be there for them,' " Jones said.
Jones described Simmons as a good worker who often spoke about his three children and was well liked at the shop.
Although neighbors and co-workers described Simmons as a quiet, likeable guy, his criminal record describes a man who became violent after drinking.
In September 2004, a suicidal Simmons threatened a girlfriend with a sawed-off shotgun in Inver Grove Heights, according to Dakota County prosecutors. Simmons' 17-year-old niece called police to report the threat.
By the time police arrived, Simmons' girlfriend had fled. He appeared intoxicated and told officers his girlfriend had left with another man, according to court files. Police found three shotgun shells in Simmons' pocket and the gun in the home, prosecutors said.
Police arrested Simmons, and one of his brothers, who was present, told officers Simmons had "mental health issues" and had been drinking.
Simmons pleaded guilty to felony possession of a short-barreled shotgun in Dakota County District Court. He was sentenced to 45 days in jail and three years' probation. He also was ordered to have no contact with his girlfriend.
Simmons violated his probation repeatedly, admitted he had contact with the girlfriend, drove without a license and used illegal drugs, prosecutors said.
A Dakota County district judge sentenced him Aug. 30 to 60 days in jail for recent violations.
Police would not say whether Simmons died at the scene or at a hospital.
Shannon Prather, Nancy Yang and Dave Orrick contributed to this story. John Brewer can be reached at jbrewer@pioneerpress.com or 651-228-2093.
Boy's mother: 'He was just trying to scare his dad'
BY JOHN BREWER
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 05/26/2007 12:39:58 PM CDT
A St. Paul police car waits Friday outside an apartment building, where a 10-year-old boy reportedly fatally stabbed his father after an argument between his parents. The victim, Thomas Simmons, 34, had been out drinking with co-workers before the fatal confrontation. (JEAN PIERI, Pioneer Press)Correction: A story on page 1A Saturday about a 10-year-old boy who stabbed his father to death in St. Paul included incorrect information about the boy and his mother. The boy's mother was not cited for child neglect in Carver County and the boy was not involved in that case. The woman cited in Carver County was the mother of a different boy of the same age fathered by the stabbing victim Thomas Christopher Simmons.
The 10-year-old boy who stabbed his father to death while his parents argued early Friday in their St. Paul apartment didn't mean to hurt his dad, the boy's mother said today.
"It happened so fast," the mother said. "My son, with the knife … it was so fast."
Thomas Christopher Simmons, 34, a Subway shop worker, died from the stab wound his son inflicted, police said. Police released the boy, who is now with his mother. The mother said Simmons, her longtime boyfriend, had been drinking and was shouting threats prior to the stabbing, but did not hit anyone or anything.
She also said media reports that Simmons threatened her, the boy and their 6-year-old twins with a pipe were not true.
"My son thought he was threatening us, but it was just with words," she said. "My son thought his dad was going to do something. That's how it happened. When you fight around kids like that, they're going to take to heart what they hear and say."
The mother said she wanted to talk about what happened in her apartment Friday morning to set the story straight, she said, and to let people know that her son is not a monster — and neither was Simmons.
"He had problems," she said. "Yes, we have argued. I just don't want people looking at him thinking he deserved it."
She said that Simmons came to her apartment after a night of drinking. The couple argued. Her children heard the fight, which included threats against their mother. The 10-year-old, fearing for the woman's safety, picked up a knife.
"My son, he was just trying to scare his dad," she said. "He didn't even realize what happened after it happened."
But Simmons was hurt — and bleeding profusely.
The mother said she was overwhelmed.
"I'm trying to deal with the 10-year-old, trying to deal with the twins, trying to stop Thomas from bleeding," the mother said.
Neighbors, including Danny Cline and two other people, stepped in. Cline tried to calm the children. A woman — the mother doesn't know her name — held a towel to Simmons's bleeding chest.
"These are really nice people," the mother said. "I didn't realize how nice they were until something like this happened."
Reports of beatings with a pipe that are circulating in the media aren't true, the mother stressed during an interview this morning.
"None of the neighbors witnessed the stabbing," she said. "They saw the arguing beforehand … they saw the aftermath."
The only people in the apartment early Friday morning were Simmons, his girlfriend and their three children: the 10-year-old boy and the six-year-old twins.
Simmons had a history of abusive behavior brought on by drinking, the mother said. She said she is the same woman Simmons threatened in September of 2004 in Inver Grove Heights.
The police report states Simmons wielded a sawed-off shotgun in the confrontation. The mother said he didn't threaten her with a gun.
"We've been trying to get that changed for three years," she said Saturday.
Police arrested Simmons, and one of his brothers, who was present, told officers Simmons had "mental health issues" and had been drinking.
Simmons pleaded guilty to felony possession of a short-barreled shotgun in Dakota County District Court. He was sentenced to 45 days in jail and three years' probation. He also was ordered to have no contact with his girlfriend.
Simmons violated his probation repeatedly, admitted he had contact with the girlfriend, drove without a license and used illegal drugs, prosecutors said.
Thomas Simmons and the child's mother have been together for about 11 years, the mother said. They met through mutual friends after Simmons moved to the Twin Cities from Mississippi.
The couple never married, but have "been together since the first day we met," the mother said.
She said that even through Simmons's alcohol-induced abuse, the couple stayed together.
"It's scary trying to start over when you've been with somebody so long," she said.
After police and paramedics took Simmons away in an ambulance, the mother and her children assumed the father was going to live.
"I told them that he would be in the hospital a couple of days," she said, relying on information fed to her by police.
But Simmons didn't live.
"I just had to tell him yesterday that his daddy was dead," the mother said. "He just thought he hurt his dad."
He's not handling it well, she said. Today she and her son are in St. Paul with relatives.
"Right now we're seriously trying to focus on my son. He's getting help right now," she said. "The family's not blaming him. Nobody blames him for what happened."
At the end of the interview, the mother said: "I have to go be with my son."
"That's his biggest hurt right now," she said. "He worries that his family isn't going to be there for him."
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