Custom Search

Wednesday, December 02, 2009

Saint Paul/ IRV update

Topic requested...Please click onto the COMMENTS for the story.

posted by Bob at Wednesday, December 02, 2009

8 Comments:

Anonymous From the bowels of SPIF said...

THERE MAYBE COPY ERRORS

From: Chuck Repke
To: stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Tue, December 1, 2009 9:45:17 AM
Subject: [SPIF] The Case results are in on IRV

― Attachment links are at the end of this email ―


Myself and Dann Dobson had filed a case against the Better Ballot campaign for lying about who endorsed them. This is the result of the case.

They're fined $5,000 the maximum penalty for a civil case. I was hoping for it to be sent to the county attorney for a misdemeanor criminal case, that if convicted the results could have been thrown out.... but no such luck. The
judges determined, "the impact on the election cannot be quantified on this record." They would have had to determine that the six lies that were mailed to 40,000 doors caused 500 people to change from "No" to "Yes" in order
for them to send it for criminal prosecution. We won the case but they get to keep the election victory... and they better be thanking the work
their lawyers (Jay Benanav and Jane Prince) did in the court room or we would
be moving on to the trial... Everything that came out of Massey's mouth was
deemed "not credible," by the panel.

This is the last paragraph of the report....

Accordingly, the panel has concluded that the Respondent made knowingly false claims that the Minnesota DFL and the League of Women Voters “endorsed”
the St.Paul ballot question and that it failed to obtain written permission from
the national political figures before using their names as supporters of the ballot question, in
violation of Minn. Stat. § 211B.02.

The panel has concluded that these violations, which
were reflected in approximately 40,000 pieces of campaign literature, were
multiple and deliberate. They were made despite the clarity of the statutory prohibitions, and the
Respondent remains completely unapologetic. The timing of these mailings made it difficult for opponents to respond before the election and created an unfair advantage.

These false claims of support or endorsement likely influenced some voters, but the impact on the election cannot be quantified on this record. Under all the circumstances, the panel believes a fine in the amount of $5,000 is the appropriate
penalty.


In my thirty some years in politics I have never seen more successful liars.... and I am not violating a SPIF rule for calling them liars since I
think deliberately writing false statements is by definition a liar and the three judge panel are the ones' saying that...not me.

Two things have been shown in these last few months. First they are the most dishonest group I have run across in politics. These people exaggerate about everything (it will improve turn out, it will improve debate, it will improve minority participation).. They attack anyone who speaks out
against them and they will lie and cheat to win (see court case above).

Second, given enough information, voters begin to realize this is a bad system that adversely effects some voters. Minneapolis had a record low turn
out. Tacoma, Washington voted 3-1 to repeal IRV after having spent 1.6 million on the system and using it once. Aspen, Colorado passed an advisory resolution to dump IRV and Mayor Willie Brown of San Francisco is now speaking out against how IRV has made elections in Frisco uncompetitive and stifled any serious candidates interest in running for office Yes, even here in Saint Paul we were able to hold the BBC to 52.4%of the vote while being outspent better than 50to 1 and them having to resort to deception in order to squeak out a victory.

So, bottom line the 2011 in Saint Paul will be in IRV and we can look forward to no city council debates and record low turn outs.

JMONTMEPPOF

Chuck Repke
St. Paul Issues Forum now contains the following file

http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/file/1308-2009-12-01T154619Z

10:00 AM  
Anonymous Bill Dahn said...

Why Should anyone ever vote, when the DFL controls Judges and Prosecutors that can turn the election around.

Chuck if there is ever any cheating in the city of St.Paul and the DFL controlled Government it is trying to stop others then the DFL Party to be elected.

This bring up why is a DFL Ramsey County Commissioner Lawyer Jay Benanav involved in this case?

This brings back the question about Mayor Chris Coleman's Law Licence or would he been the "lawyer in this case with Jay Benanav.

Soon in St.Paul every dog will have its day, when the Feds step in and takes over St.Paul.

Tell us all again why
Chris Coleman turned in his
Law Licence when he was Elected Mayor?

Why did Norm Coleman and George Latimer hang on to theirs?

This city is always into some kind of Commerce Fraud and Criminal Schemes.

This is just one way to "Stop Fare Elections"!

Follow The Money and catch Who?


Bill Dahn
ECF:#P1291866
Ojb-Sious.#408B191
www.billdahn.com



.

8:23 AM  
Anonymous Ralph said...

How does it feel to be screwed by the court Chuck?

9:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ralph - I went through a divorce twenty years ago... I know what it is like to get screwed by the courts.

Again what is so sad on this thing is to know that there are going to be people who will never figure out how to use this new voting system and that they are going to be screwed by it. That was the only reason I went through this thing.

The system is great for incumbants in municipal elections. Everyone of them in Minneapolis won. It is great for the candidates that can raise the most money. What it is bad for is ever having any serious debates on issues.

But, the goal is to get people use to it so that they can pass it for state wide races.... so...

JMONTOMEPPOF

Chuck Repke

1:37 PM  
Anonymous Joe Soucheray said...

In the case of instant runoff voting, cheaters really do win
By Joe Soucheray

Updated: 12/05/2009 10:55:45 PM CST


It was tucked away on the inside pages of the paper a few days ago, an unfortunate placement for a story so steeped in political intrigue and duplicity, alarm and fury. The supporters of instant runoff voting, the so-called Better Ballot Campaign, lost in a courtroom against Chuck Repke's opposing group No Bad Ballots, which had argued that the supporters of IRV had cheated.

And they did cheat. They were found by administrative law judges Kathleen Sheehy, Cheryl LeClair-Sommer and Barbara Neilson to have violated Minnesota election laws by knowingly making false claims for endorsement of their vote-yes position.

The Better Ballot Campaign sent out mailings to 40,000 households claiming endorsement of its position by the Minnesota and city DFL, by the Minnesota League of Women Voters and by political figures including Barack Obama, who happens to be president, John McCain and Ralph Nader, none of whom had given written permission for their endorsement, thus the violation of state law.

The group was fined $5,000.

"In my more than 30 years in politics,'' Repke said, "I've never seen such a successful group of liars.''

Repke, remember, is a veteran liberal political activist who has more than willingly placed himself at odds with the same people he has been working with since he pounded his first campaign sign into the ground.

"How any liberal DFLer can look at IRV and not know that it is going to be an election process poorly understood by so many voters only makes me think it had become a religion to these people,'' Repke said.

This is the last paragraph of the report issued by the judges:

8:41 AM  
Anonymous Joe continued said...

"Accordingly, the panel has concluded that the Respondent made knowingly false claims that the Minnesota DFL and the League of Women Voters 'endorsed' the St. Paul ballot question and that it failed to obtain written permission from the national political figures before using their names as supporters of the ballot question, in violation of Minn. Stat. 211B.02. The panel has concluded that these violations, which were reflected in approximately 40,000 pieces of campaign literature, were multiple and deliberate. They were made despite the clarity of the statutory prohibitions, and the Respondent remains completely unapologetic. The timing of these mailings made it difficult for opponents to respond before the election and created an unfair advantage. These false claims of support or endorsement likely influenced some voters, but the impact on the election cannot be quantified on this record. Under all the circumstances, the panel believes a fine in the amount of $5,000 is the appropriate penalty.''

In other words, it is further corroboration that you could put "DFL" behind anything proposed in this city — for instance, let's eliminate Saturday from the week and go to six days — and it will pass, but that couldn't really be quantified in such a way as to overturn the election results.

Repke contended all along that DFLers who opposed IRV are now seen or thought to be complicit in the mischief compelled by the illegal mailings. That is especially irritating to a guy who calls himself a political mechanic and one who insists he would not do such a thing to any candidate he engineered or represented.

"If I would have had $20,000, I could have won the case,'' Repke said. "But I didn't have any money. I wanted to present voters and ask them, one by one, how they were influenced by the literature.''

I didn't know he was looking for money. I wouldn't have been good for the $20,000, but I would have pitched in. The entire episode of opposing IRV has found me on the same team not only with Repke but also with the likes of Dave Thune.

"I was hoping for it to be sent to the county attorney for a misdemeanor case, that if convicted the results could have been thrown out, but no such luck,'' Repke said. "We won, but they get to keep the election victory.''

Ellen Brown, who coordinated the St. Paul Better Ballot campaign, said, "We're sorry that we made the mistake.'' She also said they don't have $5,000 in the group's account and isn't sure how that will affect payment of the fine.

"They will probably stiff the state,'' Repke said.

Joe Soucheray can be reached at jsoucheray@pioneerpress.com or 651-228-5474. Soucheray is heard from 2 to 5:30 p.m. weekdays on KSTP-AM 1500.

8:41 AM  
Anonymous Alex said...

Chuck, I am sitting here with my wife, daughter, and son in law, all of us are in agreement you would make a good mayor. Why haven't you run for a political position?

Alex Wendt
"East side pride"

9:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alex,

Thank you for your kind words. Running for office is like walking naked down Wabasha Street. I don't mind pushing other people down the street but you aren't catching me doing it.

JMONTOMEPPOF

Chuck Repke

10:45 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home