Owner of St. Paul duplex raided before RNC plans to sue city
Please click onto the COMMENTS for the story.
posted by Bob at Saturday, October 11, 2008
Custom Search
Saturday, October 11, 2008
A DEMOCRACY TOWN HALL HOME
Do you have a topic you want to discuss at the Town Hall? Email your request to A_Democracy@yahoo.com
“A DEMOCRACY” Disclaimer- While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to this forum express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned
THE ROOF GUYS
Mickey's Diner 1950 7th Street West, St Paul, MN
(651) 698-8387
AX-MAN SURPLUS
1639 University Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55104
Tel:(651)646-8653
LANDLORD.COM LINK HERE
SHHHH! While we listen to words of wisdom from a wise man.
Conscience is the light of the Soul that burns within the chambers of our psychological heart. It is as real as life is. It raises the voice in protest whenever anything is thought of or done contrary to the righteousness. Conscience is a form of truth that has been transferred through our genetic stock in the form of the knowledge of our own acts and feelings as right or wrong. A virtuous and courageous person can alone use the instrument of conscience. He or she can alone hear the inner voice of the soul clearly. In a wicked person this faculty is absent. The sensitive nature of his / her conscience has been destroyed by sin or corruption. Hence he or she is unable to discriminate right from wrong. Those who are leading organizations, business enterprises, institutions and governments should develop this virtue of the ability to use their own conscience. This wisdom of using the clean conscience will enable them to enjoy the freedom.
Dr APJ Kalam, President of India given during the inauguration of the seminar on “THE EFFECTS OF CORRUPTION ON GOOD GOVERNANCE AND HUMAN RIGHTS
Previous Posts
- Saint Paul/ Federal Fair Housing Lawsuits, Meet Vi...
- Saint Paul/ Federal Fair Housing Lawsuits part 12,...
- Saint Paul/ Federal Fair Housing Lawsuits, Meet Vi...
- Nancy C. Lazaryan, el al., v. City of St. Paul, et...
- Appeals court overturns eviction
- Saint Paul/ Federal Fair Housing Lawsuits part 11....
- Fired bus cleaner wins $150,000 award
- Saint Paul/ RNC FALLOUT
- Saint Paul/ Department of Safety and Inspections i...
- St. Paul Port Authority scores big chunk of 3M pro...
29 Comments:
Whalen claims police targeted guests
By Emily Gurnon
egurnon@pioneerpress.com
Article Last Updated: 10/10/2008 11:17:05 PM CDT
The owner of a St. Paul duplex raided by police two days before the start of the Republican National Convention has given notice he will sue the city in federal court.
Michael Whalen, 60, claims police came to his property at 949/951 Iglehart Ave. on Aug. 30 and surrounded its occupants, weapons drawn.
Officers initially had no search warrant and were denied entry, said Ted Dooley, Whalen's attorney. Police returned a couple of hours later, warrant in hand, and shackled Whalen and others in the back yard.
Among things they were looking for, according to the search warrant affidavit, were explosives delivered in heavy boxes.
The boxes turned out to be full of vegan literature.
"They found nothing, absolutely nothing," Dooley said. "We want the police to back off and stop screwing around with people's rights."
Whalen lives in the 951 half of the house. The 949 side was empty, and he was allowing members of an independent media group, I-Witness Video, to stay there during the convention.
I-Witness Video planned to document protest activity during the convention. The same group helped exonerate 400 people charged in connection with protests at the 2004 Republican Convention in New York.
Dooley believes the I-Witness people were the real targets of the investigation.
City Attorney John Choi said when the city gets notice of the lawsuit and if it is RNC-related, the city will forward the suit to its insurance company for defense and indemnification under the $10 million police liability insurance purchased for the RNC.
Choi said police entered the house with a search warrant signed by a Ramsey County district judge.
"They were operating under that authority," he said. "I'm confident that the St. Paul police acted in good faith in obtaining and executing the search warrant."
Emily Gurnon can be reached at 651-228-5522.
St. Paul Police wouldn't act in bad faith would they?
Wonder what Herr Reppke has to say about this.
Is government always right THIS time?
Bucky and Herr Reppke will say that nothing they found is dangerous and found in all people's homes.
Repke and Thune will spin this anyway they can, but the fact remains there was intelligence that showed these groups like the RNC welcoming committee were her for one purpose and one purpose only and that was to destroy our city.
Too bad these thugs didn't trash Bucky's place on West 7th, oh that is right Bucky and his friends held meetings at his place on West 7th and they knew better than to trash the place they attended meetings at.
Fort Road Guy
This guy proves conclusively that lefty's are complete idiots.
Here's how it's going to go down:
Judge: "Did you see a search warrant?"
Lefty Assnozzle: "Um, yeah, but.."
Judge: "Did they take anything not covered in the warrant?"
Assnozzle: "Well, no but...there was fear, and, and martial law, and stormtroopers and.."
Judge: "Get out of my courtroom and take your scumbag lawyer with you."
Swiftee
This is the one where they had a search warent for one side of a duplex and not the other.
The were denied enterence to the side they didn't have a warent for, so the police broke down the attic door and came into the other side anyway.
Yes I know, Swiftee is hoping that the government comes and takes away all of the weapons in his house because he has spoken badly about the government and could be a threat.
In fact Swiftee thinks its a crime to take a piss.
JMONTOMEPPOF
chuck Repke
Not taking a piss is not a crime, but what they intended to do with that piss in the bucket. I thought there was a code in St. Paul that all housing units in the city needed a flush toilet and not a honey pot or outhouse.
Chuck they weren’t throwing water balloons at the delegates to the RNC convention. Those were piss bombs. If you think that collecting piss to make piss bombs is ok, I would be happy to throw a piss bomb on you and Thune to see if you like it.
Code says you have to have a toilet, etc. but it doesn't say you have to use it!
10:42 and what if they or Swiftee own a gun and Council member Thune or some other government official thinks that they intend to use it for bad intent?
Time to collect all of those guns and Tom Swift and Bob Fletcher are the champion gun collectors!
...and as to the "piss bombs" what a joke. Ask any prison guard what they have gone through on a daily basis. None of this crap is unusual. And after thousands of years of inmates throwing piss and crap on jailers, now Fletcher gets to call it a "bomb," to make it sound like it was something really scary. Every day in Stillwater, some guard gets it done to him, and they grab the offender and throw them in the hole.
What is so tragic on this is that Swiftee and Fletcher are willing to give away our civil liberties for a couple of twenty something punks that would throw urine.
Fletcher want to turn the little "wilding" punks into "domestic terrorists" to make it sound like he did something big. Every day in Saint Paul the SPPD takes out far more dangerous people than anyone was arrested for during this event.
Do I think people that damage property should be arrest? Yes. Should they go to jail for it? YES. Does that give Fletcher the right to go into dwellings without a warrant? NO. Especially, when is was spelled out to them that it was two dwelling units with two addresses on camera! Do I support our police officers and how the behaved? YES. Do I question some of the command decisions that were made? Damn straight.
My biggest issue is that the council had been informed before the event that all efforts would be made to humanely arrest those who were not where they were suppose to be.
At some level the determination was made to simply "mace to move" people rather than having enough officers assigned to arrest. Maybe it wasn't possible to do what they said they were going to do, but they should have said they couldn't a year ago before the policy makers decided to have the event.
The site of our good officers being assigned to mace, and tear gas crowds of people still sickens me. They shouldn't had to have been in the position. There wouldn't have been 4 votes on the council to host the convention had they been told that their officers in all likelihood were going to have to mace and tear gas crowds, the council was led to believe it didn't have to be that way.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
The police that purchased an insurance policy for the RNC purchased what they thought was a free pass to trample on the rights of citizens.
The citizen protesters who peacefully protested that got assaulted by police will have their day in court.
They will win to because the UNLAWFUL use of force is not covered under the 1 million purchase of insurance with a 10 million cap.
It seems evident to me that when the police showed up at the Iglehart address without a warrant and wanted entry, they intended to disregard the civil rights of the people in the home.
The polices conduct against Amy Goodman of Democracy Now was dispicable and violative of free press.
Jeff Matiatos
Chuck, do you have any evidence that the council was mis led to believe that the police would never have contemplated using enreasonable and unlawful force ?
Why the council required that the sponcers of the RNC purchase the insurance knowing full well that it anticipated police brutality...
Wake up !
Jeff Matiatos
Chuck the police is part of the city and they do nothing wrong.You said.
Jeff, this is what drives me crazy with people on this site. Whenever there is an issue, there must be a conspiracy. I just don't believe that is the case. Sometimes shit just happens.
I don't have anything in front of me, but I remember Thune pushing the cops early on about their ability to detain non-violent civil disobediants. Through-out the discussion it was always said that they would have the ability to arrest those who were laying in the middle of the street or refusing to move along.
I think the council was totally cought by surprise that the tactic that the police would use with crowds that weren't where they belonged was shock and awe. That they would try to scare them off with pepper spray and tear gas rather than being in a position to arrest them.
Again, maybe that isn't possible to do, but if you would have told this council that if the RNC comes and there are crowds where they don't belong our plan is to tear gas them, there wouldn't have been the votes to OK the contract.
It just wouldn't have happened.
We have worked for almost twenty years on community policing and changing the image of the police in the neighborhoods. I doubt that the council had a clue that the plan was to order our officers to mace and move crowds.
I like our police. I try to facilitate as strong of a relationship between our communities and the police as possible. Forcing them into this situation is bad for their image and should have been better thought out.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck, don't get me wrong, I don't think the police as an entire force had an agenda, but in a round about way, the police knew that the purchase of an insurance
plan to cover their actios opened up the door to more free wheeling and forceful efforts to control the citizens.
Let me give you an example. Casinos are regulated by the state to fairly pay slot jackpots and winnings to casino guests.
If they don't, they get fined.
Well, the casinos ignore these laws knowing full well that if they get caught, they can be fined.
The fines for getting caught are so small that its worth it for the casinos to violate the law and tighten up the slots.
They make more money this way.
This insurance policy provided an incentive for police to overstep their authority and some of them got busted.
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff - the City purchased the poicy with monies that came from the Fed's for the RNC.
The City normally is self insured. It has no insurance. It pays all claims with tax revenue.
Because of the past history of these events the Fed's allow the host cities to use the monies to buy the coverage that protects the tax payers from paying the claim. It wasn't the police idea.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than when they are convinced beyond doubt that they are right"
(Sir Laurens Jan van der Post: 12/13/1906 - 12/16/1996)
and as to the "piss bombs" what a joke. Ask any prison guard what they have gone through on a daily basis. None of this crap is unusual.
So you're comparing the citizens of Saint Paul to inmates, and the government to prison guards?
Interesting.
Don't know about you, Chuck, but I'd like to hold our city to a higher standard than "what passes in prison".
Although I know convicts are a solid DFL voting bloc...
Chuck, the city didn't pay for anything, the hosting commitees did as was voted on by the city council.
So then what does the city give a shit what the cops do ?
For all that matters to the city of St.Paul, its resources and staff attorneys don't get used in defence of the many different law enforcement agencys during the RNC.
Lets just hope the damages don't exceed 10 million which I am not sure that it will.
They say the 2004 convention in New York still has hundereds of outstanding lawsuits related and has already cost about 9 million without a policy.
Tax payors will be pissed in St.Paul if they end up having to pay at the expence of outgoing republican idiots.
Jeff Matiatos
outgoing republican idiots
Er, were the delegates the ones storing urine and vowing to shut the city down?
Or conducting dubious raids and using excessive force at demonstrations?
Or demonstrating without, or outside the terms of, their permits?
No?
There were plenty of idiots involved, but the Republicans weren't among them. Republicans don't actually have any power in this city at all.
I was refering to my personal distisfaction of the republican party.
No offence intended to your personal political affiliation.
Jeff Matiatos
Chuck said-I think the council was totally cought by surprise that the tactic that the police would use with crowds that weren't where they belonged was shock and awe. That they would try to scare them off with pepper spray and tear gas rather than being in a position to arrest them.
I say---Chuck police security was practiced for a year in advance and the RNC gave St.Paul a boatload of money for security.Thune should have got off his fat ass and went to the training of the police for crowd control.You support the police huh?Well where were you and Thune at this saturday for the police ball.Didn't see ya there.
A year of training and the council didn't know what was going to happen.Maybe Thune was to busy planning his RNC protest.You guys are sick and bad for the city.Get a real job!
Brian
Brian,
So, do you think the council would have voted for the RNC to come had it known that its officers were going to mace to move instead of arresting those who were not where they belonged?
Count to 4. Name them.
Tell me which 4 on the council would have stood up in front of there constituents and said I want to piss away twenty years of improved police community relations in order to have one of the conventions here?
I can maybe count to two if the Mayor squeezed them hard.
I office in a police store front, my better half is a police reserve and worked the street each one of those days of the convention in uniform, jerk. You can go to all of the damn balls that you want but the woman I love was on foot with no vest walking the Wabasha Bridge one night of the convention. She worked the streets by the capitol on Labor Day. She drove the Highbridge one night and she was on 12th Street in a squad the last night when the Capitol crowd went bat shit. So, tell me about what its like having a loved one having to face this shit.
I have no problem with the officers who work for Saint Paul. I will say it again, somewhere in the command the decision was made to mace to move and the council should have known that before they voted on having the convention come here.
Because if Fletcher or Harrington or the Mayor would have walked into the council chambers and said that if the reality of having an event here and there is no way to do it otherwise, they would have just taken a pass and let them go to Tampa.
Do you think that there were more than 20 cops on the force that wanted the event here? They were just doing the job they were told to do and they did it well.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
somewhere in the command the decision was made to mace to move and the council should have known that before they voted on having the convention come here.
So, Chuck - are you saying that the Secret Service, Dick Cheney or the Trilateral Commission made this "decision to mace to move" BEFORE the City Council voted to have the convention here?
Seems oddly...prescient, doesn't it?
20 years of improved police community relations? Maybe the police departments realtions with the racist neighbors and city council has improved Chuck, but their respect with the rest of us had been lost long before that. I'd put more thrust in a thug than a cop.
The first clue to the council about the mace to move the crowds should of been recognized with the dollar figures that were published prior to the convention revealing how much mace was ordered in for this event!
Repke said: "I have no problem with the officers who work for Saint Paul. I will say it again, somewhere in the command the decision was made to mace to move and the council should have known that before they voted on having the convention come here.
Because if Fletcher or Harrington or the Mayor would have walked into the council chambers and said that if the reality of having an event here and there is no way to do it otherwise, they would have just taken a pass and let them go to Tampa."
Repke that is BS and you know it. What else do you want to handcuff our police? They had a job to do and that was to protect our city. Harrington and Fletcher deserve a metal for the outstanding job they did.
Repke, tear gas is for crybabies like yourself.
Do you really think if the city council knew police were going to use tear gas they would have stopped the RNC or the DNC conventions from coming here? Get real. Are you and your buddy Thune so out of touch and reality that you actually believe that if the city council had known they were going to use tear gas they would not approved the RNC convention?
Repke how do you come up with this crap? Are you so enclosed in your own little world that sunlight does not enter from the real world?
7:22 - 6:59
I said count to 4. Which 4 council people would have voted to approve the contract if they had known that the preferred method of crowd control was going to be mace to move? They sat in those meetings and were told that those would be last resorts.
So, let's count...
Thune - well we already know that is a no.
Helgan? - Hmmm vote to let Bob Fletcher mace his constituents, I don't think so.
Carter - with his strong support from the Progressive MN types... I'd guess that would be a no.
Strark - first term DFL'er??? Voting to empower Bob Fletcher?
Lantry - family comes from the heart of the Labor movement taking it to the streets...OK'ing macing the crowds as a first option?
I got three solid no's and two that I would bet money on.
That leaves you Harris and Bostrom who would tend to support the opportunity to have the event over the possible negative effects between police and crowds. Though I had discussions with Dan long before the event and he would have predicted it would have gone just the way it did.
So, again I have no problem with anything the cops did. And, there might not have been any options but that isn't what they told the council they were going to do before the council approved the contract.
Most of this council have been thrilled with the improved police community relations and strongly support community policing. The image of an officer in full riot gear pepper spraying a twenty year old girl with her hands in the air does nothing to promote community policing and will set back our efforts to develop good police/community relations years.
Again, there may not have been another way to handle it, but command should have been open with the council before they signed the contracts.
Just My Opinion Not Those Of My Employers Past Present Or Future
Chuck Repke
Chuck, the committes from mnlps/St.Paul to hold the convention had no interest in buying an insurance policy to cover their asses.
Do the committes that wanted the convention bring their own police with them ?
No, they didn't, and St.Paul, who voted to have the convention were the ones weighing the risks involved and knew that the plan for how the police would deal with crowds and protestors involved mace and othger riot tactics would involve mace , rubber bullet projectiles etc, this is why they required the committes to purchase the insurance policy for 1 million.
My point, the city knew the risks involved because it admitted it had learned from the 2004 RNC in New York.
So your telling us that had the council not known the preffered method of crowd control they wouldn't have had the convention ?
Bull, they wanted this convention on a unaimous vote and required the committes to buy the insurance because the city knew what the police were going to do.
So I have no doubt that this city anticipated the tramping on of peoples civil rights.
Jeff Matiatos
Post a Comment
<< Home