Panel's tie vote keeps Ramsey County 'sheriff' an elected office
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posted by Bob at Monday, May 05, 2008
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14 Comments:
Panel's tie vote keeps Ramsey County 'sheriff' an elected office
By Dave Orrick
dorrick@pioneerpress.com
Article Last Updated: 05/05/2008 09:49:48 PM CDT
One vote on an obscure governmental body you might not have heard of Monday evening means you won't be able to vote on whether you should be able to vote on whether the Ramsey County sheriff should be voted on at all.
Got it?
Here's another way to put it: If Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher wants to run for re-election in two years, he can, thanks to one vote — or lack of it — on the Ramsey County Charter Commission on Monday evening.
The Charter Commission, an appointed 17-member panel that has jurisdiction over the county's version of its constitution, was considering whether to place a question on the November ballot. It would have asked voters if the office of the sheriff should be elected or appointed.
It needed nine votes. It got eight.
That the roll call was an 8-8 tie makes no difference — although local political observers likely will try to track down Sharon Klumpp, former executive director of the Metropolitan Council and a onetime candidate for Minnetonka city manager. Klumpp, the only member of the Charter Commission who was absent Monday, appeared warm to the idea of putting the sheriff matter on the ballot, said Chair Mike Fratto, who supported the measure but predicted it would fail.
A phone call to Klumpp's Vadnais Heights home was unanswered after the meeting.
The issue of whether to appoint or elect a sheriff — the vast majority of counties nationwide elect them — had been a contentious and politically charged one on the commission on and off for at least a decade. In the 1990s, the group, consisting of largely different individuals, commissioned a study on the issue, though that commission never reached the point of a vote.
Fratto introduced the issue Monday by saying, "We've now come to the point in time where we need to discuss what we've been doing for the last couple of years."
The debate's political overtones aren't surprising, considering Fletcher, now in his fourth term, often has been at the center of political passion. Most recently, he beat out former St. Paul Police Chief Bill Finney by 1,133 votes, fewer than 1 percent of the votes cast.
When asked after the vote whether the issue was dead, Fratto responded, "I suspect it's going to be the end of it, unless someone wants to bring it up again."
from Saint paul Issues and Forums
From: Mike Fratto Date: May 05 13:50 UTC Short link
You know this discussion is interesting. But where were you when the Ramsey
County Charter Commission held its hearings?
This issue was raised at least nine months ago in this forum yet no one said a
word. The forum moderator mentioned a post in the Pioneer Press' blog
regarding the issue. I posted the announcement of the public hearing prior to
the first hearing. John Krenik responded to that post as did two others.
John showed up and testified at the first hearing. Yet there apparently hasn't
been any interest from anyone else. As chair of the Commission I would have
loved to have had more people who were not in some way associated with the
Sheriff's department testify on the issue, regardless of the position.
Fletcher is tops in my book! I was by the library downtown when they had a fire in the district heating plant. Fire crews were just getting there and traffic and pedestrians were kind of in the way. Who do you suppose was out in the street like a grunt directing traffic and pedestrians? None other than Bob Fletcher.....the highest level law enforcement officer in the county out directing traffic in the hot sun like a grunt. Seeing that has won my loyalty to him.
12:38 AM
I agree 100%. Sheriff Fletcher is willing to do any job that is required at the Sheriff's Department. This is called setting the example by modeling.
We are very lucky to have Sheriff Fletcher as our sheriff in Ramsey County.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
OK John. Accept this challenge.
How about you debate me on Home Rule. I figure I'll save Chris Coleman the time by exposing how you are not ready to serve.
Name your venue, Cable tv, live audience, internet. I'll set it up, let's go.
And, just for the record, I'm not your 'Friend' and refuse your 'warm regards'. I think you're a freak who doesn't what he's talking about half the time and the half is carrying the water for others on issues you don't understand.
You and me on Home Rule. I'm for it- more of it. You apparently are against it. Back up your views.
Eric
Eric you seem to have major anger issues. Are you related to that city worker they just arrested for making threats against his boss?
I'm with Eric (unforunatly) on this one. I've been reading this Krenik guy for a couple of years and all he seems to be is an ass kisser every chance he gets
I'm not angry at all on this. I'm excited about exposing Krenik as less than shallow.
You Republicans want to compete for Mayor, send us a guy that can stand on his own words at least.
Eric
Dear Eric,
Your last post at 12:55 PM seemed really out of character for you. I have heard many good things about you and your tone and language in your past posts are surprising. Calling me, “retarded” is not how an adult acts in a civilized society.
In the world of politics today we see too much anger and not enough working together. When I stated “My Friend,” in my letter to you it had meaning. You and I may have opposing viewpoints, but that does not mean we can’t be civil. Eric it seems that you don’t know it by now, but I have many friends in many different political parties who I work with on a daily basis. I welcome different views and ideas. No one political party has a lock on good ideas. Heck, if we were all the same or belonged to one party it would be very dull.
I did call your friend A. L. Brown out onto the carpet for the comments he made on AM 1500 KSTP yesterday. Mr. Brown did not even have the decency to debate me like a man. Yes, I did challenge him to debate the merits of the Ramsey County Sheriff situation and also his comments on the Founding Fathers. Now are you saying you and A. L. Brown are one in the same by you accepting my challenge to him? The comments by your friend A. L. Brown that he made are public record, made at a public forum. Are you saying he didn’t say these things?
As for the Home Rule debate with you, where did you get that? My challenge was with A. L. Brown, now if you are A. L. Brown or you want to talk about the topic of the post Ramsey County Sheriff (elected or appointed) let’s go. The topics I was discussing were A. L. Brown and the proposed charter change of appointed or elected sheriff in Ramsey County.
Eric, I informed the public on shocking comments made by your friend, Mr. Brown. You have tried to turned around my words and read something into what I have written. I can’t help that, I wrote what I wrote and it is what it is, a comment about a public figure’s statements that he made in a public forum.
Your post here today is a good example of where politics have gone in recent years. People are disenfranchised and this is a good example why. As we see daily, nothing is getting done on the state or national level. Too much fighting and NOTHING is getting done.
Eric, I look forward to seeing you on the campaign trail.
As a very good friend who is a Democrat and is on the St. Paul City Council advised me that I should not even bother answering such a negative post as yours. Eric I want you to know I work with all political parties, I have no dislike for one party over another. If you knew anything about me you would know this.
In closing, Eric when I end a letter with “Warmest Regards” I mean it. Just because we have opposing viewpoints, does not mean we can’t be civil towards one another.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
John,
Personally, I haven't seen anything from you but a person who seems to be enamored with the personalities of some of our politicians and regurgitate words of praise and support without much measurement of policy/public value.
You, in that sense, represent whats wrong with politics. No principles. Your convictions are not embedded in political philosophy or some set of principles but, the cult of personality. On the Right, its how conservatives support Bush no matter what, though he's been one of the biggest spenders since Johnson. On the Left, they support candidates who piss on labor just because they ran as a democrat and they like the person.
You'll find quite a few DFLers right here in Saint Paul who disagree with me and some who downright don't like me. Too bad. So, it doesn't surprise me that someone on the Council told you something negative about me (there's one who use to be on the council that will tell you more).
They are right about one thing, you probably shouldn't get into this with me. Of course that individual himself hasn't been a DFLer very long (of course I know who it is. Everybody talks downtown).
Anyway, I had a couple of drinks with A.L. after the RCCC meeting last night and asked him to bring you on his show. He had no interest in debating you if you're running for office. I then suggested bringing you and me on the show and he declined as the issue is dead.
I'm the one who sent him your letter(before the show so how could you say you called him out for something he said on the show?). He wasn't aware that he was being called out in public you- you failed to cc him on your letter so he returned the favor by addressing it on the show, in public.
Anyone can go back and read the progression or should I say digression of your argument on this issue and see the you've weakened your stance as this has dragged on. Its a sign that you were unclear in the first place.
I put myself out there for you to debate with. You said the Home Rule point should be examined, well, let's examine it. You seem to have a problem with it being used, I think its the best form of democracy at the county level. We both think the Sheriff should be elected (you just didn't want the people to make the decision for themselves) and we both believe in expanding the executive arm of the county through a county executive.
Yesterday you were complaining about the charter commission taking people's rights away- then you were informed that's not what they do. You then complained about Home Rule, then you find out that its a good thing.
One more thing, our set-up in this county alone, allowed the Sheriff to go out and directly lobby for funding for the Office to expand it and improve it. Your position yesterday- 'home rule is questionable'- would mean the Sheriff would not have that kind of authority in the executive, without going to the county board for permission first.
I think 2:04 summed it up best Krenik.
Now if you guys (StPaul GOP) really wanted to give us a run, it would be your Treasurer running instead of you. She's got some real gravitas.
Well Johnny, its an open invite to debate a DFL officer on the merits of Home Rule Charter.
For those who didn't know, since the Charter can propose changes over the legislative and executive functions of the county, the commission is appointed by the Chief Judge with two from each county district and three at-large.
Eric
I can't even finish reading your post Krenik. I don't particularly like Eric, but I respect the hell out of him cause he stands by what he says, right or wrong....which by the way is worng most of the time but that'a naother discussion.
You on the other hand, I don't know what to think. Eric chews you up, tears you up, arrogantly and offensivly tells you where you're wrong and then spits on you to boot and you come back kissing his ass and telling him about all "his good things."
How do you think you're going to run the city with this type of personality my man?
8:53, it's called diplomacy!
John has class!
Bob and 8:53
Its called being condescending.
Its dismissive and disrespectful. Its Minnesota Nice for 'eff off'.
Eric
Eric,
It was being nice.
I wish you well.
John Krenik
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