Should the Sheriff be elected or appointed?
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posted by Bob at Saturday, May 03, 2008
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Saturday, May 03, 2008
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48 Comments:
Hi All,
I pasted this here from Saint Paul Issues and Forums.
From: John Krenik Date: 16:30 UTC Short link
Hi All,
There was an article in the St. Paul Pioneer Press today about the election or
appointment of Sheriff in Ramsey County.
The Ramsey County Charter Commission will meet on Monday, May 5, 2008 at the
Ramsey County public Works Facility, 1425 Paul Kirkwold Blvd., Arden Hills.
A Link to the story: http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_9136933
When I testified before the Ramsey County Charter Commission, when they held
public hearings to consider whether to elect or appoint the Sheriff in Ramsey
County. The shocking comments from Commissioner A. L. Brown (three times)
during the proceedings, “what if the public gets it wrong” in arguing for his
position of appointing a sheriff instead of electing a sheriff. The public
should ALWAYS have the final say in who the top governmental leaders are and a
board should NOT appoint them. It seems Mr. Brown, in his APPOINTED position
knows what is better for the public than the public itself.
The office of Ramsey County Sheriff is a very important one and the people of
Ramsey County need to elect their Sheriff. According to the Hamline University
study, nearly every sheriff in America, including ALL 87 counties in Minnesota
are elected. This has been a practice that has been going for over 300 years.
Having checks and balances is important in government. The office of Sheriff
is one of the most important jobs in the county and the PEOPLE need to have a
voice in the matter. When you start just appointing people to positions like
sheriff, you silence the people’s voice. Our Founding Fathers intended for the
people to have a voice in their government. If you take away a person’s basic
right to vote for an important job like sheriff, then you are taking away
another right of the people to choose their governmental leaders. This is not
a road we want to go down.
Leaving the average citizen out of the decision making process is simply the
wrong way for Ramsey County to go. The people should ALWAYS have the right to
choose their city and county leaders and that includes the sheriff. I propose
that we expand election process to the offices the Ramsey County Charter
Commission and let the people decide who the members of the charter commission
are. Taking away the ability for average citizens to vote is one step towards
governments like North Korea, Kim Jong-il and Venezuela, Hugo Chávez.
I would also suggest the following to the charter commission, elect instead of
appointing the offices of County Manager and Property Tax Assessor. Then these
individuals would be held accountable to the people and not the county board
that appointed them.
I support the continued practice of electing our sheriff in Ramsey County. The
people need their voice to be heard and when you start appointing a Sheriff
instead of electing a sheriff you take away the people’s voice. The people
should ALWAYS have the final say in who their leaders of government are.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
Highland Park, St. Paul, Minnesota
From: Chip Peterson Date: 21:09 UTC Short link
On May 3, 2008, at 11:33 AM, John Krenik wrote:
> Leaving the average citizen out of the decision making process is
> simply the wrong way for Ramsey County to go. The people should
> ALWAYS have the right to choose their city and county leaders and that
> includes the sheriff. I propose that we expand election process to
> the offices the Ramsey County Charter Commission and let the people
> decide who the members of the charter commission are. Taking away the
> ability for average citizens to vote is one step towards governments
> like North Korea, Kim Jong-il and Venezuela, Hugo Chávez.
>
This kind of hyperbole detracts from what should be a serious debate
about the advantages and disadvantages of appointing versus electing a
sheriff. We have never elected the Chief of the State Highway Patrol,
the US or Minnesota Attorney General, the Director of the FBI, the St.
Paul Chief of Police, etc.; yet we have not turned into a North Korea.
I'm sure Mr. Krenik can make cogent arguments for continuing to elect
the sheriff, but the breathless assertion that appointment by an
ELECTED County Board would be a step toward totalitarianism scarcely is
one of them. (If it were not beyond the local scope of this forum I
would add that mentioning North Korea and Venezuela in the same breath
further undermines his credibility, but it is so I will not.)
Chip Peterson
Mac Groveland
How is the chief of police put in office ?
There is your answer.
This comment has been removed by the author.
“what if the public gets it wrong”
What is this guy smoking??? Maybe we got it wrong when we elected the officials who appointed him to his position!
I would like to remind this joker that, historically, throughout the United States, Sheriffs have always been elected by the people, as imperfect as we and this Union may be!
The same way our assnine president Bush got elected.
Or did the superdelegates elect him ?
Not trying to offend republicans.
Ha Ha !
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff, Hilary doesn't know when to stop. The voters have spoken and this dope doesn't know it's time to quit. She is attempting to sway delegates. This will drive a wedge between black voters and the democrat party since 90% of the black vote is voting for Obama.
She isn't trusted by 6 out of 10 voters. This is the kind of politician Chuck supports.
Bob will you put up a post on the primary election?
9:57,
I dont trust her either just as I generally dont trust lawyers.
It seems most decisions lawyers make at work and in their private lives are connected to their lawyer mentality, not the human side if things.
We have to many Lawyers in politics.
Sorry Hilliary, your not getting my vote.
I would vote for Bill Clinton over Obama.
Oh, I am not voting for Mcain either.
I am selling my vote at the polls.
I wonder if I could get more for selling my vote to a democrat or republican ?
I know Bill clinton was a lawyer to but our nation was in a better position than it was with either Bush administrations.
Obama seems the reasonable alternative but if I can sell my vote for maybe .25 cents, I'll take it.
Jeff Matiatos
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sheriff Bob Fletcher: Fighting for his future
By CURT BROWN, Star Tribune
May 4, 2008
A glint comes to Sheriff Bob Fletcher's eyes as he steers his black, Ramsey County-issued Dodge Durango through St. Paul. He's caught a glimpse of another black SUV and is quickly in pursuit.
"Let's surprise him," Fletcher says. He scoots into the St. Paul Police Department garage, pulling behind Chief John Harrington's vehicle, wedging him into his parking spot.
Harrington rolls his eyes at Fletcher's prank, and the two top cops spend some time swapping yarns about their time as St. Paul police rookies 31 years ago. The encounter is innocent enough but hints at Fletcher's push-the-boundaries style.
Now in his fourth term, Fletcher has reinvented the Sheriff's Office, expanding its reach, doubling its budget and polarizing its ranks. His high-profile approach has strayed into empire-building, some believe, and he now faces a rare threat that could make this term his last.
The 17-member Ramsey County Charter Commission, an obscure independent group, is set to vote tonight on a ballot question that would make the sheriff one of only about 10 nationwide to be appointed by county managers rather than elected.
If a majority approves, the question will go to voters in November.
Fletcher's style is considered a factor in the commission's decision to vote on the issue now, after years of discussion. Others suggest it's a DFL-driven act of revenge, since Fletcher, a Republican, beat out former St. Paul Police Chief Bill Finney last fall by just 1,133 votes out of more than 184,000 cast.
The brawler
Like many boys growing up in Maplewood, Fletcher spent a chunk of his summers at the Tomahawk Boy Scout camp in northwestern Wisconsin. At the end-of-camp carnival, counselors would slap Crisco on a watermelon and send two-boy teams into a portion of Long Lake. A brawl ensued as 20 boys tried to get the slippery melon on the dock.
"Your partner would fake like he had it and swim one way," Fletcher recalled. "Then you'd grab the watermelon and go to the bottom and swim as far as you could until you saw the pipes and sneak it up."
He won three years in a row. Fletcher's competitive -- at times combative -- nature hasn't mellowed since.
A linebacker at Hamline University, he switched his major from chemistry to political science, then stumbled into police work in 1977 after a girlfriend pointed to a flier on the wall of a Burger King, seeking new cops in St. Paul. He soon became involved in politics, joining the City Council at 27 and running failed legislative and mayoral campaigns in the 1980s before winning the sheriff's seat 13 years ago.
At heart, Fletcher remains a linebacker.
"Bob's a bright and a strong guy, but he's had an unusually conspiratorial and combative approach to the world," said former St. Paul Mayor George Latimer, who supports the referendum movement.
Bob Long, another former council member, said Fletcher's "heart and commitment are in the right place,'' but adds that he can " definitely rub people the wrong way.''
Fletcher sued when county commissioners cut his 1999 budget. When a county manager hesitated to build a $61 million jail, Fletcher posted a daily skyway bulletin board of felons being released because of overcrowding, urging people to call the county manager.
Then there was the night five years ago when the League of Women Voters held an election forum. Fletcher's longtime aide, Kris Reiter, was running for the City Council seat left empty after her father's death. When volunteer moderator Sigrid Johnson mistakenly read a question about the Fletcher-Reiter relationship, Fletcher seized the notecard for fingerprinting.
Never mind that he was there as Reiter's campaign manager, not the sheriff, and married Kris a year later.
FBI backdrop
A July 2003 raid on a Maplewood bar could end up playing a role in the outcome of the referendum question.
When state gambling agents raided the Rock bar that year, they found roulette wheels and blackjack dealers. According to court documents, the bar's former owner first told authorities the money from the illegal operation was going to Fletcher's reelection, then recanted.
The case was turned over to the FBI. In March, nearly five years later, two Fletcher aides were indicted.
Mark Naylon, Fletcher's public information officer and best man when he married Kris, and Inspector Tim Rehak are accused of stealing $6,000 in bills that the FBI planted in a room at the Kelly Inn in St. Paul -- money the men returned a short time later.
FBI spokesman Paul McCabe won't discuss the investigation. Fletcher bristles at any suggestion that he might be the ultimate target. "I know the facts and there's nothing there," he said. "I'm not in any way, shape or form worried."
But he acknowledges that the indictments "hurt the credibility of the department."
In the midst of the FBI probe and his most recent reelection campaign, Fletcher's family life made headlines.
His son Kyle, the second of three kids from his first marriage, was spinning out of control. Fletcher twice had his son arrested. Heroin and cocaine were the underpinnings for his troubles, which included a convenience-store burglary.
"My girlfriend said at the time that my dad would never talk to me again," said Kyle, 18. "But now we're like best friends."
Fletcher said he had his son arrested as "a form of love because I couldn't stand to have Kyle out on the streets one more night using drugs."
Father and son have since visited doctors and researched addiction and medications. "[Kyle's] addiction has become a sort of father-son project," Fletcher said.
Creative - or meddling?
Before Fletcher took over, the Ramsey County Sheriff's Office followed its statutory mandates -- guarding prisoners, courthouses and waterways.
"Most sheriffs follow the book," said Ramsey County Commissioner Tony Bennett, a former federal marshal who Fletcher beat for the sheriff's job in 1994. "Bob creates his own book."
Since Fletcher took office, his roster of full-time deputies has swelled 31 percent from 311 to 408, and his budget has climbed from $20 million to $43 million, a 51 percent rise after inflation. The rest of the county budget, adjusted for inflation, grew 21.5 percent during the same span.
The Hennepin County Sheriff's Office -- the only one in the state larger than Fletcher's -- saw its budget rise 38.5 percent in the same period.
Fletcher points to the larger jail and programs he's launched, including an early role in the state's gang strike force and such efforts as a downtown curfew center and a literacy program in a largely Asian housing complex. He's also added units to track career criminals and sex offenders.
At a recent meeting, nearly two dozen of his aides went over details for the upcoming Republican National Convention. Although the lead local agency is the St. Paul police, Fletcher is angling to direct much of the federal money his way.
"There are clearly people within my organization who would like to see us go back to the good old days when Bob just patrolled the suburbs," said Harrington, the St. Paul police chief. "But I have no great concerns about Bob overstepping because he has jurisdiction in the entire county and I can use all the help I can get."
Harrington's predecessor, Bill Finney, isn't as diplomatic. "Ramsey County is the first responder in the suburbs, but that's a boring job and Bob wants to get in the headlines," he said.
People who have worked in Fletcher's department offer completely different stories.
"We were hired to be cops, but it's not a police department over there anymore -- it's a marketing firm for one individual," said John Moore, a former patrol lieutenant.
Moore won part of a $750,000 settlement this year after he and another deputy sued, contending that they were unfairly demoted after Moore ran for sheriff in 2002.
Top Fletcher aides defend their boss.
"He's honorable, dedicated and smart and probably too forgiving," said Nick O'Hara, a former FBI agent and former head of the state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension who runs Fletcher's apprehension unit.
Latimer laughs about the conflicting portraits.
"There's always a chance both people are right,'' he said.
Appointed until we can clear up some of this duplication of duties with local law enforcement.
Elected, let the PEOPLE decide.
I feel all county positions should be ELECTED and NOT appointed. That is the major trouble here, you have taken the people's voice out of the selection of these key positions like county attorney, tax assessor. These people are now responsible to the individuals (County Commissioners) who appointed then instead of the people of Ramsey County.
We do elect our County Attorney. Way to stay on it.
Eric
11:07 AM here.
My bad, the county attorney is elected and should stay elected.
Other offices like property tax assessor, county manager need to me elected al well.
The county a few years back took away the people's voice. We are the ONLY county in Minnesota to do so. I guess the other 86 counties know better? The only thing Ramsey County did was protect the DFL party that controls all things in Ramsey County.
Krenik is kind of misleading.
The Charter Commission can change NOTHING with the charter. They can ONLY put the question to the public for a VOTE!
That's the question for the people to vote on- should we appoint or elect the Sheriff.
Krenik goes on to talk about founding fathers intent and the public having a say. He neglects to mention that the Commission can only ask a question and then put the question to the public.
Krenik, you're on a sorry road of being able to regurgitate buzz words but empty of true policy discussion.
Can you tell us why the question was brought up? (It has little to do with Bob as it wouldn't take effect until Bob was out of office anyway).
Eric
Ramsey County is the only home rule charter county left in Minnesota. That means that the county has the power to do as it pleases without input from the legislature.
However, any changes must be put to a vote by the people of our county. The people of our county decided that we didn't need those offices.
No changes to our charter or elimination of offices ever happened without the people voting one way or another.
What's wrong with that?
Eric
Eric,
It seems like the DFL lost the Sheriff's election (1,133 votes) and now they want to take away the people's voice and appoint a Sheriff.
The DFL can't beat Bob, so they change the rules to beat Bob.
The only reason the Charter Commission is bringing this up at all is because Finney lost the election. Finney should have run for Ramsey County Commissioner instead like it was suggested to him.
More than one DFLer talked to Finney about running for county commissioner, but nooooooo he has to get into this tiff with Bob.
This Home Rule stuff stinks because it takes away the people's voice. It was just a power play by the DFL to keep control.
Why doesn't the Ramsey County Charter Commission put up for a vote the offices of Ramsey County Manager and Ramsey County Tax Assessor as well as Sheriff? The Ramsey County Charter Commission would not dare do this because it is the DFL's meal ticket.
Krenik is correct, the public's voice has been slowly taken away by the DFL with this Home Rule provision.
Eric we all know the charter commission does not have the power to change who holds the office of Sheriff, but they are putting the issue up for a vote and leaving alone the office of county attorney. The intent of the charter commission is very clear, they don't like Bob Fletcher because he is not a DFLer. They have blinders on when it comes to being fair. From Krenik's post A. L. Brown (KSTP 1500) stated it clearly, "WHAT IF THE PEOPLE GET IT WRONG?" It seems like he has little confidence in the public making a choice in who's out Sheriff in his appointed position.
12:55
Did you read anything above your post? Didn't Nancy and I explain the whole home rule thing to you?
1. This has been a four year long discussion within the Charter Commission. That goes back to when Finney was named as a challenger to Kelly for Mayor, long before the Sheriff run of 2006.
2. No DFLers talked with him about running for County Commissioner. It was Mayor, Lt. Governor and then Sheriff. I'd ask where you got that info but, I know where it came from.
3. This is not about Bob as he would be out of office before this could take effect.
4. Home Rule doesn't take away the peoples voice- IT MAKES IT STRONGER. Unlike other counties, nothing- NOTHING can happen without the people's consent. NOTHING.
5. You are as retarded as Krenik by equating home rule with less voice. Home Rule ENSURES more voice.
Your problem is that you don't like the decision the people made. They decided to eliminate certain offices.
The Attorney was taken off the table because it was viewed that that Office still creates public policy and therefore is still justifiable being directly elected by the people.
Stop being dishonest by trying to redefine what home rule means. Be honest and say that you don't like the idea that most of the people elected are democrats (because most of the voters are) and you are not happy with people making decisions that you don't like.
Try to exclude the personalities of Fletcher and Finney and really examine the proposal.
Eric
Copy and paste Charter Members, today at www.am1500.com member
A.L Brown, in place of Mischeke memtioned Krenik on the talk show without Kreniks response?
Is the Media controlled? 646-8255
on right now, or albrown@am1500.com
Meeting tonite
http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/NR/rdonlyres/D75BABDF-F80D-4336-B0B5-499B250C7BD6/10727/Roster2008effective022108.pdf
A.L. Brown in on am1500 a Hubbard Broadcasting station.
That's the biggest Republican family in the state. That station is conservative as is the word.
It appears that Krenik called him out on SPIF and here, making it part of public record. So, A.L. used the public airwaves to RESPOND.
That's right, his was a response to Krenik's spin.
Eric
I received a call a few minutes ago informing me that A. L. Brown was on 1500 KSTP. It is also my understanding that A. L. Brown called me out on my Letter to the Editor (Pioneer Press) as related to his comments he made at a public meeting, "what if the public gets it wrong?"
I was not notified by A. L. Brown of anyone from KSTP that I was going to be his topic if discussion. If I had, I would debate A. L. Brown and any other Ramsey County Charter Member about this issue.
I think it speaks volumes of the intent of A. L. Brown in controlling his message and not wanting a debate.
I will debate A. L. Brown anytime, anywhere on this issue. I will not hide behind my position like A. L. Brown does to promote his agenda.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
John, in order to debate your way out of paper bag you need your facts straight.
You're not even there yet.
How about addressing the claims you put forth on the vote tonight?
Eric
Eric,
It is interesting that A. L. Brown left out my other comments at the Ramsey County Charter meeting, A. L. Brown in favor of his spin.
I will debate A. L. Brown anytime, anywhere on this issue.
If he really wanted the public to hear the whole story he would have invited me to come onto the program with him. A. L. Brown didn't want the public to hear the whole story just like he does not want the public to vote for positions like Ramsey County Sheriff.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
Eric,
The push behind the Ramsey County Charter Commission is clear by their actions of ONLY putting this office instead of county attorney as well on the ballot, their guy lost. Susan is their one of their guys, so lets not touch this office.
The comments by A. L. Brown are shocking. To somehow say that it is ok to take away the right of the public to have a say in their governmental leaders is SHOCKING.
Eric, I have not misled anyone here. My public statements on this issue have been out there since January of this year. The only ones who are misleading the public are some members of the Ramsey County Charter Commission.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
Krenik,
You're a liar.
If you have been following this as you say you have, you'd know the discussion on eliminating the offices (attorney and sheriff) began four or five years ago on the commission.
Either you know this and purposely omit it, or its not of value to your political agenda.
A. L. Brown wouldn't waste his time debating you. You can't even honestly debate me with all the time in the world.
Eric
Eric,
Name-calling is a sign of one who does not have all the facts and is trying to divert attention from the real facts. Your questioning of my veracity is just a ploy to get around the issues of the topic.
When I testified before the Ramsey County Charter Commission, when they held public hearings to consider whether to elect or appoint the Sheriff in Ramsey County. The shocking comments from Commissioner A. L. Brown (three times) during the proceedings, “what if the public gets it wrong” in arguing for his position of appointing a sheriff instead of electing a sheriff.
Eric how is this misleading? Public record to back me up on this. Are you saying the tape recording of these hearing is not correct?
Eric you know it and I know it, if your guy had won this election we would NOT talking about this.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
John,
I stated on SPIF that I am FOR an elected Sheriff. I was for this before Finney was running and I was discussing this with A.L. back in 2005. I have a different reason for supporting the election over appointment that you do.
You support it because you're a republican and its one of the last offices left that a republican (who doesn't call themselves one during the election) can win. I support it because of separation of branches of government.
Fletcher is my guy as he is the Sheriff of the county I live in. Save the us/them argument.
You are a liar because you are:
1. purposely trying to assign powers to the commission they do not have
2. misleading on the vote tonight. You know damn well tonight the vote is should the question of 'elected' or 'appointed' be on the ballot for people to decide in November.
3. You are using Fletcher's name to strike up the usual banter that comes with the Fletcher/Finney thing. You leave out that this question if passed in November would not take effect until Fletcher is gone.
You even misquoted A.L. on what he said. He's right, sometimes the people do get it wrong. That's why we change our constitutions, charters, voting age, drinking age, election of Senators and this electoral college.
Eric
You're a 'Johnny come lately' John.
Eric
Eric,
I will respond to you, as I have NEVER not answered a direct question and I NEVER will. I won't pull a sham on you like A. L. Brown did to me today.
Eric you stated: “1. purposely trying to assign powers to the commission they do not have”
My Response: Never have I stated such. You may have implied that I have, but if you reread my article I have NEVER claimed to do such a thing.
Eric stated: 2. misleading on the vote tonight. You know damn well tonight the vote is should the question of 'elected' or 'appointed' be on the ballot for people to decide in November.
My Response: When have I stated other wise? I am fully aware what the vote is tonight. My problem with the vote tonight is only the Ramsey County Charter Commission has targeted ONE office. The officer of Ramsey County Attorney is elected as well. If the Ramsey County Charter Commission truly believed in what they were saying, vote tonight would also include all elected offices left in Ramsey County.
Eric said: 3. You are using Fletcher's name to strike up the usual banter that comes with the Fletcher/Finney thing. You leave out that this question if passed in November would not take effect until Fletcher is gone.
My Response: Where have I mentioned Fletcher’s name of Finney’s name in the post Bob posted here on this blog? I was talking about the ISSUE before the Ramsey County Charter Commission. I mentioned the title of the office, Ramsey County Sheriff. I talked about a study from the Hamline University and the SHOCKING statements made by Commissioner A. L. Brown during the public hearings. I also stated that having checks and balances is important in government. The office of Sheriff is one of the most important jobs in the county and the PEOPLE need to have a voice in the matter.
Eric you state this is a Republican issue, again I have not brought this into the discussion. This issue is neither a Republican nor Democrat issue, but an issue of making sure the public has a voice.
I have not mentioned Fletcher or Finney as you say, “to strike up the usual banter that comes with the Fletcher/Finney thing.” I am talking about the issue of elected or appointed offices in Ramsey County.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
OK John.
You clearly tried to make this sound like the commission was taking away people's power to vote. You've been called on it and now you want to say you were simply shocked at Brown's words. Busted.
You are aware that the conversation for years has surrounded the actual creation of public policy versus the offices that execute the policy after is law.
Those who make public policy certainly should be under direct accountability, those who execute or bureaucrats need to be accountable to an individual and we hold that person or people accountable. Everybody in the public eye should not be held to a political bar, which is what you're asking. Its like if teachers had to run for office or even principals.
Who were talking about John when you said:
"Eric you know it and I know it, if your guy had won this election we would NOT talking about this."
Sounds to me like you're bringing up old news that wasn't even news when this discussion began.
Now, John Krenik, what do have against the people of Ramsey County having the choice to vote on this question in the fall?
You know better than them?
Eric
Eric,
My friend, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
You said: "You've been called on it and now you want to say you were simply shocked at Brown's words. Busted."
My Response: Busted on what. Informing the public as to what is happening, when a meeting is going to be held, repeating a public official's words.
Eric all you have done is try and divert the attention away from the real issues and you have name called. If you can't understand plain English then I am sorry for that. If you read something into what I have posted on SPIF I can't control that.
You have tried to do a little fishing today by throwing out some bait, to try and bait the issue and turn this into something that it is not. Sorry, but you are going to go home empty handed today.
You may state the issue has been going on for several years now, but there is only ONE office that is being considered by the Ramsey County Charter Commission tonight and that is the office of Sheriff. They have left out the office of county attorney in this vote.
A. L. Brown said what he said and it was shocking. I could see this in another country, but not here.
You said: "Sounds to me like you're bringing up old news that wasn't even news when this discussion began."
My response: I posted something on SPIF that was important and in the news. This is not old, but a current discussion. I hope to see you at the meeting tonight.
Warmest regards,
John Krenik
This comment has been removed by the author.
now I'm not a lawyer, but the very first paragraph of the Ramsey County Charter says
"Except as this charter expressly provides to the contrary, Ramsey County shall have all the powers possible for a county to have [...] by the constitutions and laws of the US and State of MN..."
wouldn't this follow then that since MN statute 382.01 says:
"In every county in this state there shall be elected at the general election in 1918 a county
auditor, a county treasurer, sheriff, county recorder, county attorney, and coroner. The terms of office of these officers shall be four years and shall begin on the first Monday in
January next succeeding their election. They shall hold office until their successors are elected
and qualified. These offices shall be filled by election every four years thereafter."
then, the Ramsey County charter wouldn't expressly have to create the office of sheriff, since the state statute takes care of it?
BD
B.D. is correct and Ms Lazaryan is (predictably) wrong re establishing the offices of County Attorney and Sheriff.
I'm waiting for Ms Lazaryan to storm the Governor's office and make a citizen's arrest given her interpretation of "officer of the court."
Or maybe she's handing this one off to Sharon?
S. Paolo
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Last night I attended the Ramsey County Charter Commission meeting. The motion to put the question of appointed or elected Sheriff on the ballot in November was defeated by a tie vote.
I continue to support the practice of electing our sheriff in Ramsey County. The people need their voice to be heard and when you start appointing a Sheriff instead of electing a sheriff you take away the people’s voice. There are only about 10 counties in all 50 states that appoint a Sheriff in their county. The people should ALWAYS have the final say in who their leaders of government are.
I think the bigger question that needs to be looked at is, how is Home Rule working for Ramsey County or could we be doing things better? Ramsey County is the only county in Minnesota operating under Home Rule. I think the time is right to reevaluate how Ramsey County is run. The County Manager and Property Tax Assessor / Appraiser need to be elected and not appointed, so they are held accountable to the people and not the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
OK John. Accept this challenge.
How about you debate me on Home Rule. I figure I'll save Chris Coleman the time by exposing how you are not ready to serve.
Name your venue, Cable tv, live audience, internet. I'll set it up, let's go.
And, just for the record, I'm not your 'Friend' and refuse your 'warm regards'. I think you're a freak who doesn't what he's talking about half the time and the half is carrying the water for others on issues you don't understand.
You and me on Home Rule. I'm for it- more of it. You apparently are against it. Back up your views.
Eric
Nancy,
I haven't forgotten your charge that the Sheriff Office does not exist. You do know that its the FIRST Law Enforcement agency in Minnesota(1849)?
Anyway, going through the Charter, I see several mentions of the Office that draws anyone to conclude that the Office of the Sheriff is indeed recognized by the Charter of Ramsey County.
Sec. 1.02 Construction of Powers
The county shall have all powers necessary or convenient for the conduct of its affairs, including all powers that counties may now or hereafter assume under the home rule provisions of the constitution and laws of Minnesota.
---This tells us that County can do as the people please without permission from the state.---
Sec. 1.03 Exercise of Powers
All powers of the county shall be executed as provided by this charter, or, if the charter makes no provision, as provided by ordinance or resolution of the county board.
---The charter is the governing document---
Sec. 4.01 General Provisions
D. The foregoing provisions shall not apply to the elective offices of sheriff and county attorney.
---PROOF that the charter recognizes that there is an office of Sheriff and Attorney, both are elected offices---
Sec. 7.03 Vacancy in positions of County Attorney and Sheriff
A vacancy in the office of county attorney or sheriff shall be filled by county board appointment. If the vacancy occurs before the first day to file affidavits of candidacy for the next regular county election (held every even numbered year in November), the appointed person shall serve only until the qualification of a successor elected at the next election to fill the unexpired portion of the term. If the vacancy occurs on or after the first day to file affidavits of candidacy for the next regular county election, the appointed person shall serve the remainder of the term.
---More proof that the Charter is not only aware but, governs over the offices of Sheriff and Attorney---
Sec. 11.01 Charter Provisions
An annotated version of this charter, which notes any provisions superseded by law, shall be maintained by the Ramsey County Attorney.
---How can this be, if we have no COunty Attorney Nancy?---
Sec. 11.02 Amendment of the Charter
A. Proposal of Amendments:
Home rule charter amendments may be proposed by a charter commission or by a sufficient petition of five percent of the number of voters registered as of the last previous state general election in the county.
---Changes can be PROPOSED by the Charter Commission AND/OR public petition. Notice the 'proposed'- the PEOPLE still have to vote on it.---
Sec. 12.04 General Laws Superseded
A. In Minn. Stat. Sec. 375.08, the following language regarding a vacancy in the positions of county attorney or sheriff is superseded by Charter Section 7.02:
The person appointed shall serve the remainder for the term.
---Language of further Authority---
Hope this helps Nancy. I wouldn't want you to refuse to comply with a Deputy and try to citizen arrest him for impersonating a lawman.
Krenik, I'm waiting.
Eric
Dear Eric,
Your last post at 12:54 PM seemed really out of character for you. I have heard many good things about you and your tone and language in your past posts are surprising. Calling me, “retarded” is not how an adult acts in a civilized society.
In the world of politics today we see too much anger and not enough working together. When I stated “My Friend,” in my letter to you it had meaning. You and I may have opposing viewpoints, but that does not mean we can’t be civil. Eric it seems that you don’t know it by now, but I have many friends in many different political parties who I work with on a daily basis. I welcome different views and ideas. No one political party has a lock on good ideas. Heck, if we were all the same or belonged to one party it would be very dull.
I did call your friend A. L. Brown out onto the carpet for the comments he made on AM 1500 KSTP yesterday. Mr. Brown did not even have the decency to debate me like a man. Yes, I did challenge him to debate the merits of the Ramsey County Sheriff situation and also his comments on the Founding Fathers. Now are you saying you and A. L. Brown are one in the same by you accepting my challenge to him? The comments by your friend A. L. Brown that he made are public record, made at a public forum. Are you saying he didn’t say these things?
As for the Home Rule debate with you, where did you get that? My challenge was with A. L. Brown, now if you are A. L. Brown or you want to talk about the topic of the post Ramsey County Sheriff (elected or appointed) let’s go. The topics I was discussing were A. L. Brown and the proposed charter change of appointed or elected sheriff in Ramsey County.
Eric, I informed the public on shocking comments made by your friend, Mr. Brown. You have tried to turned around my words and read something into what I have written. I can’t help that, I wrote what I wrote and it is what it is, a comment about a public figure’s statements that he made in a public forum.
Your post here today is a good example of where politics have gone in recent years. People are disenfranchised and this is a good example why. As we see daily, nothing is getting done on the state or national level. Too much fighting and NOTHING is getting done.
Eric, I look forward to seeing you on the campaign trail.
As a very good friend who is a Democrat and is on the St. Paul City Council advised me that I should not even bother answering such a negative post as yours. Eric I want you to know I work with all political parties, I have no dislike for one party over another. If you knew anything about me you would know this.
In closing, Eric when I end a letter with “Warmest Regards” I mean it. Just because we have opposing viewpoints, does not mean we can’t be civil towards one another.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
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This is where you fall short Nancy. Your letter of the law argument- which is fine if you knew how to do legal research. Lexis-Nexis works fine for me.
Stop trying to pollute the issue by talking about colonial history- I've got a 16 year jump on you there.
Home Rule is just that. The county decides. If it wants to keep a couple of offices that were in statute- it only takes an ordinance or resolution to do so as stated in 1.03.
Home Rule doesn't tie up our hands, it frees our hands to do whatever we want- regardless of statutes. The biggest reason for it is taxation. Hennepin county residents were given a nice stadium tax by the state legislature with the residents ever having a vote. Home Rule prevents that from happening here- only here.
So, Nancy, I want you to look up Ramsey County (St Paul County at the time) and check the first eight ordinances. Tell me what it says about sheriff, attorney, taxes and ports.
Eric
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Nancy,
YES IT CAN.
Again slowly for the Tartan grads--
Home Rule allows the county to set its own ordinances. If it wants to accept some statutes, or one statute, pursuant to 1.03, any provision not spelled out in the charter can be done so by resolution or ordinance. A simple resolution in 1849 created the offices.
Or maybe you're right and every crime and criminal and dollar spent running for those offices over the last 160 years should be questioned.
What do you drink at night?
Eric
Eric,
What is up with your negative comments like in your last post:
1. Again slowly for the Tartan grads--
2. What do you drink at night?
Well, you can:
1. Look up the word snark
2. Buy a sense of humor
3. Read the majority of comments directed at me by the anonymous cowards.
4. Go read Andy Capp
Eric
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Nancy, me being right on this one doesn't negate the possibility of Jell-O still being between my ears. Some of these discussions are adding to it.
Nancy, I will not only read the statute but get a casual opinion from a judge I respect. Know that you still haven't explained how the offices don't exist when the charter CAN do as it pleases.
Resolutions are not formal ordinances. A resolution formalizing the sheriff and attorneys office based on the exact language in state statute is completely within order and powers of the Charter. The Home Rule aspect of the charter doesn't mean that you cannot duplicate statute, it means you can CHOOSE what you want.
Eric
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