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posted by Bob at Wednesday, January 21, 2009
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82 Comments:
It appears Eric KISSED so much ass battling it out here the dog was thrown a bone from the Mayor.
23. Resolution — 09-49 — Approving the appointment of Eric Mitchell, by Mayor Coleman, to the Truth-In-Sale-of-Housing Board of Evaluators. (GS 3065546)
I stumbled onto this information reading the Saint Paul Legal Ledger
Come back Girlie Man, we miss you!
Bon, what was the big deal with tish reports in the RICO case ?
Bob,
This is what you get when one party controls every office.
You get appointments like Eric's and the average citizen does not have a chance at a fair vote.
I once thought there was a level playing field, but what I found out was the Democrats control everything and give the spoils to their buddies and leave everyone else out in the cold.
click above.
Bob has proven Eric is not honorable or trust worthy.
Birds of a feather flock together, he fits right in with the rest of these back stabbing cheats.
I also see in the resolutions the city is taking adverse action against Pub East. Pub East sits directly across the street from code enforcement officer Mike Kalis's bar the Moon Shine Lounge.
I intend to speak with the owners of Pub East and find out what is going on. They run a tight business for years, now all of a sudden they have problems.
Could be Bob, that Kalis is trying to shut them down to get rid of a competitor.
Jeff Matiatos
What goes around Comes around, We figt the Agenda every Wed. It may be prudent to have an online newsletter of these agenda's
Contact them as advocates before the City Ratify's Assessments,
Remember the Mayor has to sign off on these Illegal Ratifications.
Delete if you must but save the Stimulas Draft File.PS the East Side has shown favorites, re: Eagle Aire 33 on Maria, has a posted Building permint for over 2 years, Inspector Steve Ubel(sp) without bringing up to Code?
Wow - OK so this "bone" that Eric got is to sit on this committee:
Truth in Sale of Housing Board of Evaluators
Meetings
The Board meets in January, April, July, and October.
Member Requirements
Size: Nine members
A Property Code Enforcement Manager or his/her designee
A building trades representative
A legal profession representative
A financial community representative
A contracting business representative
A real estate business representative
An architectural or engineering profession representative
Two general public representatives
Saint Paul Residency: Not required
Term: Three years
Staff: Connie Sandberg - (651) 266-1935
Powers & Duties
The Board serves as a watchdog for home buyers by ensuring that information on the physical condition of homes for sale is available. It also develops and enforces a code of ethics as well as testing standards for truth-in-housing evaluators.
-----
Wouldn't you want someone who has actually been involved in these discussions to serve on that committee?
I don't have a clue why Eric volunteered to do this kind of a service, sounds like a pain to me. And, I don't think it is one that a lot of people are fighting to get on...
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Eric just figures that he can't beat us here so he joins them over there .
The tish reports wern't available to the RICO men in their lawsuit.
Why ?
Kalis bar had many police calls for service when he owned it before. Police were even doing proactive visits because it was so bad there.
To 10:27
The TISH report were destroyed by the city because they knew the landlords would use them to show lots of other properites around them were in the same or similar condition. The city couldn't have that, so they broguht in the paper shredders.
Congratulations Eric!
Alex Wendt
"East Side Pride"
To 10:27 and 11:48
The TISH reports are paid for by the seller to assist the buyer in knowing what he is buying. Though they are required by the City, they are not the City's reports and the City doesn't stand behind them. The City gets a copy of the report to protect the seller - the seller can prove that they had complied with the law.
The City routinely throws them all away after a set period of time. The City doesn't use them for anything else. Again, the reason why they have them is for the purpose of showing the seller complied with the law and noting else.
They were not "evidence" of anything, just more stuff that the "Ricomen" asked for after the fact trying to make it appear that the City's normal disposal of dated data was somehow a part of a grand international conspiracy.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck you are wrong, how would the city not stand behind the tish reports if they have to have a committe that evaluates them ?
The words you use " stand behind "
should be more like the city board " uses the tish reports to sick the dogs of DSI on home owners "
Obviousley, the tish reports contain valuable information about the condition of the sellers home so it's what the truth in sale board does with that information
( send it over to DSI ).
Your just wrong !
Jeff Matiatos
If the seller ever needed to show he was complying with the law by filling out a tish report, why involve the city when he can keep a copy with his attorney ?
Isn't there a constitutional law that forbids government from interfereing with a contrat.
( between a buyer and seller).
Yes there is.
St.Pauls tish board is unconstitutionally interfereing with private contracts between buyers and sellers by requiring tish reports !
Jeff Matiatos
I hate to break this to you Chuck, but if the city requires these reports to be done and then keeps a copy of each one, then THERY ARE the city's reports. The reason they keep them is for enforcement purposes. If they see a house for sale, then they have a data base to look at so they know if that certain seller has complied with the law. If he hasn't, then they prosecute the seller criminally. How can you say something so stupid as the reports are not the city's reports?
10:43 because the reports aren't the City's reports. The City has a copy of a report written by someone that the seller has contracted with to write the report.
For it to be the City's report the City would have to have been the person that contracted for the work to be done or the person that did the work, they are neither. All they have is a copy of the report.
They don't "stand behind" the reports because they don't write the reports. The group that Eric has become a member of sets the standards for the people who write the reports. Those are the folks who "stand behind" their own work. The committee (meeting once every three months) sure as heck isn't reviewing TISH reports.
READ WHAT THE JOB DUTIES ARE...
The City has no one to drive from for sale house to for sale house to check and see if TISH reports are there. They get the reports as someone said for compliance, but the enforcement is only going to come with a complaint, like I said, which is the reason they get a copy... to protect the seller.
I hate to break this to you 10:43 but the City DOES NOT HAVE A DATA BASE OF EVERY HOUSE FOR SALE IN SAINT PAUL... How do you people think up this stuff. Have you ever sold or bought a house?
There is no notice given to the City when you put a house for sale. The City has no data base, so the City has no idea if someone needs a TISH report (so they aren't out their doing enforcement), and the "committee" meets once EVERY THREE MONTHS, so they aren't looking at the reports and giving them to DSI.
You people live on an entirely different planet.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
My God Chuck your a relator, you know the County has data base on every property in the city and county, with current owners,banks etc. www.co.ramsey.mn.us
"Shit shining shanola "Our Eric Mitchell""
Uhh, thanks Bob. Wrong from the title let alone your story but, why let a good story stop you? Go get 'em tiger!
This appointment was the result of an opening, one of dozens that was out there for months.
You folks have a lot of opinions about me and seemingly, a lot of concern. I'm a lot of things, some of them offensive to others some I disagree with but, to call me:
1. Dishonest
2. Asskisser
Well , number two is the easiest to defend. Anyone who knows me would put on the opposite side of asskissing. Aggressive and sure of myself at times but, never have I been a wet noodle asskisser. With over 1000 anonymous posts directed at me, ass-kissing is not a trait.
Now being dishonest is strange as I take a very unpopular view and stick with it. Why? Because its what I believe.
How easy would it be to remain anonymous and agree with everyone, or disagree. I sign my name to every single post, knowing people are going to attack my argument, me personally, and my associates or associations. I do it because I'm not a coward and stand behind my words. Even when I was wrong, as I was about one of Dadders properties, I sign it. With me, you know exactly where I stand. That's not the trait of a dishonest person.
I can't let Chuck have all the fun, although, ethically, I'll probably have to either stop posting here, or be clear its my own opinion and doesn't represent any...blah, blah, blah. However, I have been around here enough years to realize that it doesn't work that way. Everything I say will be tied to any entity of individual whom you see as out for less than your best interest. So, yes, my post will become far and few between- if any.
I'm not sure how TISH is directly involved with your 'suit'. No one has explained it. If I really wanted kick you in your collective asses wouldn't I go for something like the public housing board or planning commission?
I hope to serve on here as I have on other boards, commissions and the district council, by giving a thorough review or research to all sides of an issues before proposing or supporting a resolution.
That's all I can do.
Eric <----- My name. Behind every post I post.
Anonymous Property Tax Base said...
My God Chuck your a relator, you know the County has data base on every property in the city and county, with current owners,banks etc. www.co.ramsey.mn.us
Chuck said the city. You guys are suing the city. TISH is a city board.
Eric
3:24 you twit... put your house for sale today and see if you have to tell anyone in any part of the government that you have it for sale.
The City requires people who sell to have a TISH but it doesn't require you to notify the City that you have your house for sale.
The county keeps records of deeds. Nobody notifies the county that the house is on the market either.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Thanks Alex.
Eric
Eric congrats and now that your on the board how long is the citys retention policy of the TISH reports?
Brian
Serve my butt......you ain't serving nothing but yourself Eric and everyone knows it. All this BS with this Tish thing is just you grooming yourself dor a run at Governor or something. Maybe og Catcher! At least be honest about your intentions man.
Isn't there some kind of ordinance in the city that wants to prevent you from selling your home unless
the seller has fixed EVERYTHING before he can sell it ?
I can buy alot of things " AS IS " but I guess I can't sell my home unless everything is fixed even if the prospective buyer agrees to fix it themselves ?
Someone with a better answer than Chuck ( if there is one ) please tell us the dam truth about how and WHY the tish report is used.
How many sales of homes are held up because of a tish report ?
Can a tish report lead to an intervention by DSI or the city council ?
Are you saying Chuck that a tish report has never involked a responce from DSI or the city ?
On the issue of this post:
I am sure Mayor Coleman is aware of whats being said here on the blog, so the mayor clearly sees how Eric is so pro city .
Both Eric and Chuck, Amanda and a few others here are of the same flock and it shows.
I am with Bob when he believes that no matter what you do, a solid campain of public awareness will expose the ultimate truth about a prospective candidates intentions and when you hide behind a corrupt administration, you go down with them .
Congrats Eric and please tell us why you chose to be on this board.
When you get on any board that serves the public, and unless your elected to that board, when the citizens ask, you owe us an answer.
Lets hear it.
Jeff Matiatos
Eric so I guess you can't answer my question.How about you Chuck.You want to take a swing at it?
Brian
Congrats Eric and please tell us why you chose to be on this board.
When you get on any board that serves the public, and unless your elected to that board, when the citizens ask, you owe us an answer.
Jeff, give me a break. You think this is the first board I've sat on? Or, the only one I sit on now? I fully understand the role and relationship with the public. I'm also aware that you don't have to suffer fools. In other words, you are being antagonistic with your questions. You don't want an answer, you want a fight.
With all of the real estate folks who read here, why hasn't anyone come to your support? Because your so far off base, it's hard to figure out your angle.
TISH has nothing to do with your suit.
Have ever sold a house? Do you own one now?
The City does not guarantee or warranty the accuracy of the report. Its done by independent evaluators of whom you chose from.
The TISH report is an overview of the building components and fixtures.
The TISH disclosure report does not address formaldehyde, lead paint, any airborne gas (including radon), asbestos, fiberglass fiber, insect or animal pests, wells or septic tanks.
The evaluator is not required to ignite the heating plant, use a ladder to observe the condition of the roof, evaluate inaccessible or concealed areas, disassemble or remove anything for the evaluation.
The City does not use the report as a means of code enforcement, unless there is a hard wiring issue.
Eric
Brian, I haven't been to my first meeting yet. I don't read the blog regularly so unless you contact me another way, don't think of this as some official link. This is Bob's blog.
I don't know the answer to your question. Here's a link to a .pdf that answers some basic questions. However, calling 2666-1900 will get you a direct answer.
http://www.stpaul.gov/DocumentView.asp?DID=2382
This make up of the board seems to cover all the bases, from community reps, to business interests, to code enforcement, to legal. What is your issue and why is it an issue now. This board has been around for years and this opening was publicized for months.
TISH reports are good for one year.
Eric
Brian, I haven't been to my first meeting yet. I don't read the blog regularly so unless you contact me another way, don't think of this as some official link. This is Bob's blog.
Eric
Technically this is my blog. I made a commitment this blog would be an open forum for citizens and it is just that. Citizens have invested time and money into this blog to make it successful. This blog is my blog, your blog Eric and anyone else with an interest in our city.
If topics like this can be discussed at Saint Paul Issues and Forums why not here? This is the leading blog on housing issues. I believe Council woman Kathy Lantry recognizes this. And Bless her heart for coming here and speaking to all these angry folks.
Thank you for your participation.
"This make up of the board seems to cover all the bases, from community reps, to business interests, to code enforcement, to legal."
Yeah on the suface it looks like it's many different kinds of input so the citizens are well represented right? WRONG!! All these people sitting on these Boards are just a bunch of "sock puppets" who cow tow to the political whims of whomever controls the roost downtown. People ain't falling for this phony window dressing the city wants to put on everything Eric.
Tish reports are used for code enforcement Eric. One of the landllords in the lawsuit told me that code enforcement sits outside waiting for the tenant to move out and then they use the violations noted in the Tish reports to meet the requirments so they can get the property to vacant bulding status. After that, we all know what happens to the place.
OK folks Eric explained how and when a TISH report is done. They are done for the seller of the house to show the general condition of the house to the buyer. Other than stimulating the requirement for hard wired smoke detecters the TISH report doesn't make a home owner fix anything before they sell the house. The buyer can buy it AS IS once he has seen the TISH.
Now back to how this fit into the "RICO" case. The RICO guys wanted copies of every TISH report to show that there are plenty of houses that are sold everyday that have "code issues" and therefore it was unfair that the City wasn't enforsing the Code on those houses since they had the TISH report.... The RICO Men wanted the City to use the TISH report for code enforsement!!!
On the how long does the City keep TISH reports, from what I read here, I think the correct answer is two years (it may be 4 but I am pretty sure it is 2) after 2 years the City just throws them out in the trash as required under data practices. The "destroying of evidence" that the RICO men came up with is that the City kept pitching the reports until the RICO men asked for them. When the City shows up with two years worth, the RICO men said NO you should have 6 years worth you should have kept all of the TISH reports from the day we sued you plus the 2 years before then that you would have had when we sued you.
Well, that just shows how crazy they are... they truly assumed that the City would keep every piece of paper in the City every time they are sued, meaning the City would never throw anything away because they are always being sued.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
"Well, that just shows how crazy they are... they truly assumed that the City would keep every piece of paper in the City every time they are sued, meaning the City would never throw anything away because they are always being sued."
Nice try Chuck, but once again you're not quite on the mark. The reports were asked for long before they were destroyed. One of the guys in the lawsuit told me this and I beleive him more than you. The city destroyed them after they were asked for them and the reason they did it is because it would have hurt the city to turn them over.
10:37 - how????
See this is the silliness of the suits how does reports paid for by home sellers and completed by independent contractors hurt the City?
What in your wildest dreams could have been in the trashed reports?
As the City said if you want them that bad supeena the people who wrote them, they might have kept copies of thier work, the City doesn't have any reason to keep them.
GET IT? The City wasn't destroying the originals of anything, just copies sent to them. The lawyers for the RICO men could have had copies for all the City knew. They could have picked them up from the people that wrote them.
How could it have ever benefitted the City to destroy them if there is some place else they could easily be gotten.
The suit is a joke and asking for the TISH was a waste of the City's time and only a boob would think it was evidence of anything.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
You'll see at the end how much of a joke it is Chuck.ovace
I think that many of you have been very unfair to Eric on this thread. Bob I am not trying to put you on blast but the title and your opening statement about Eric was kinda mean considering that Eric contributes a lot on this blog and has taken a lot of crap from other posters here, and still contributes. Now he might not participate anymore. Whether I agree with Eric on many issues or not I do appreciate his insight.
Congratulations on your appt. Eric! I wish you the utmost success.
Now. A truth in housing report is required of the seller to protect the buyer from undisclosed hazards. I would not know if the city is using it for anything other than its intended purpose. But what I can tell you is that the completed form is part of the closing file. Both the seller and the buyer have copies of it. The realtor has a copy and so does the lender, title company, and inspector. Since the purpose of the document is to protect the buyer, like a warranty, it does not make any sense for the city to keep a copy for extended periods of time. As someone here said, the report is good for one year. If the property does not sell the document becomes obsolete. Lenders are only required to keep a full copy of the underwriting file for three years. After that they can destroy the entire file. It is more important for the buyer to keep a copy of it than for anyone else to. So if someone wants a copy of the truth in housing they should probably hunt down anyone who purchased the property during the relevant dates. As far as I am concerned the truth in housing inspection that St. Paul property owners are subject to is unfair because a prospective buyer will most likely have a $300.00 homebuyer inspection, which is more thorough, done before the closing anyways. Just putting my 2 cents in.
It doesn't make relevant sence for the city to keep a copy at all unless the city intends to use it in some capacity of enforcement.
Why would the city bother to appoint a 9 panel board to go over this document ?
The TISH reports , because they are documents the city requires itself to keep, fall under the citys document retention rules and the RICO guys are saying the city destroyed them in violation of the retention policy.
Certainly if this is true,would be very relevant agaginst a summary judgment motion by the city trying to get out of any wrong doing.
Why not get the copies from the buyers or lending institutions or the evaluator themselves?
Seems to me that if its a link to a smoking gun, one obtain a copy through other means and pretty much prove their case- instead say they proved their case because the city didn't give them a copy.
Is it what's written in the report you want, or just the process of retention you want expose? If its what's written, then there are other ways to get that report. If its the process, as Chuck is pointing out, so what?
one more thing,
Does the retention policy cover the individual TISH reports that sellers hire private evaluators to oversee? Or, the minutes from the meetings that regulate the evaluators?
TISH seems to be a policy board for the home evaluators. Like the Bureau of Measurements that regulate the gas pumps in the country. Their reports will only read of the regulatory nature, not which gas station is selling more gas than the others.
Cool, a couple of people who actually are beginning to understand.
Saint Paul is one of several cities that require a Truth in sale of housing report to protect buyers from someone hiding something wrong with their property that they know or should know about it. The board Eric is becoming a part of sets the standards for those evaluators and may come up with more things they should add to their list of things to check.
Like I said, the issue with the RICO men was that when you sue any city, the city is required to retain relative information for discovery. So, things like DSI inspection reports about the properties in question would have been kept. What happened about the TISH is well into the discovery phase the RICO men ask for the last 6 years worth of TISH reports and demand that the City produce them. Their claim being that when someone sue the City the City should keep every scrap of paper in every desk and drawer in the City government for their inspection. The City argued that the reports had nothing to do with nothing and since they hadn't been asked for specifically they kept throwing old ones away.
The City is constantly throwing away old paperwork....or the walls will burst at the seems.
Nice that at least someone else is starting to see the silliness in the suit.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
3:07 said;
I think that many of you have been very unfair to Eric on this thread. Bob I am not trying to put you on blast but the title and your opening statement about Eric was kinda mean considering that Eric contributes a lot on this blog and has taken a lot of crap from other posters here, and still contributes. Now he might not participate anymore. Whether I agree with Eric on many issues or not I do appreciate his insight.
My response;
Eric has dished out plenty of shit here for over 2 years. You look hard enough on the Internet and you will find he has threaten to kick my ass over things I have said.
Eric can take crap as much as he dishes it out, he isn't no pansy! IF, he doesn't come back it has nothing to do with me. Further more, it will be Eric's lose if he doesn't participate here, he has a large following here at A Democracy. He is well liked.
This forum will make or break politicians in the future, and it is all to obvious Eric has political aspirations. I believe Eric's participation here has helped him earned his appointment.
The TITLE of this post, is exactly the way I see it! One thing folks can count on from me whether I am right or wrong is my honest opinion.
I think you made a mistake and posted this on the wrong topic Alex. I moved it here. BOB
Eric, don't leave us. My wife and I, my son in law and daughter, we will all miss you if you quit.
Bob, we can't lose Eric. Apologise, please.
Alex Wendt
"East Side Pride"
"Seems to me that if its a link to a smoking gun, one obtain a copy through other means and pretty much prove their case- instead say they proved their case because the city didn't give them a copy."
Are you an idiot or what? First off the city was required to keep those reports and turn them over as the Judge in the case has already said. Secondly, you must be a liberal with the mindset you exhibit. Why should the lawsuit guys chase all over the state begging and paying for thousands of reports that the city should have turned over long ago. If your statements reflect your real thought process and what you believe, I can't help but wonder what the rest of your life might look like.
As long as I sit on the TISH Board (3 years), and as long as its perceived as pertinent to the suing parties (even though its not), its best I don't comment.
I'm just a member to a board that hasn't even met yet. I'm not the spokesperson and already we see that Bob, Jeff and other have assigned malicious intent to my appointment and the board itself.
These people on A-Dem, for the most part, have drawn some dark conclusions already. There are even a couple that use the "friend" told them line. Chuck and I present facts as we know them, and we find ourselves arguing with an anonymous poster on his anonymous friend on something he heard? Ridiculous.
Or, we get people like Jeff Matiatos, who tell us we're wrong on the operations and procedures of TISH reports, then tells us that the TISH Board of Evaluators is unconstitutional- and in his last post admits he doesn't know the basics of the Board and ask questions that, he seemed to be pretty confident about the answers to in his previous two posts.
He voids his own arguments.
I looked at the comments when I post and then at the ones when I stopped and there really is no difference in comments. This is not a discussion here. Its a sounding board. The occasional challenge from Chuck, Amanda, others and myself are drowned out not by a response of equal structure but, one of insults and attacks.
Who needs it?
There is work to do, coming here commenting throughout the day is not going to get it done.
Alex, I'll be back in once in a while, but less and less.
Being the anti-hero on a blog that's antithetical to good government and fairness, is certainly not a bad thing at all.
Eric
Chuck how does a couple of peabrains buying into your spin demonstrat any silliness of the lawsuits? You attempt to mislead people with your statement about the city being required to throw things away like it's some kind of law. It's not a law, it's the city policy, and they're not required to throw anything away......they choose to. When they get sued and certain things are asked for in discovery, that policy stops and they are required to keep the information. You make it sound like these guys asked for this information very late in the game and you're not being truthful. The information was asked for right away in the beginning of the lawsuits......back when they were filed....back in 2003! The city chose to destroy them instead. One can only guess why they would do this, but I would assume most people destroy evidence because it's harmful to their defense. What other reason could there possibly be?
But Eric if you go away we will not be able to finish converting you to a Republican.
Being the anti-hero on a blog that's antithetical to good government and fairness, is certainly not a bad thing at all.
Eric
GOOD GOVERMENT! YOU ARE INSANE ERIC.
Ralph <----
10:20
Where is it written in ordinance that the city must keep all of those reports?
That's your first burden. Find that and then we'll talk about your statement of proving a positive with a negative.
You conclude, "Since the reports are not there from years ago, the city must be guilty.".
It appears that you have a problem differentiating between the process, requests and what was being asked. Go back and read again or, ask someone who can read to read it to you.
Eric
Eric seems to have more support here than I anticipated. Due to the large number of complaints emailed to me and posted here, I changed the title. This doesn't change the way I feel.
I like Eric a great deal. I still think he is an ass kisser to city hall.
Whats wrong with being an ass kisser? I feel being an ass kisser is what would be considered a learned trait in our society that we all have learned to a certain degree at a very young age. At times it does help, I know I have done my share.
I am not sure you would have to necessarily call it ass kissing but a person does need to look at things with an open mind and see all sides. Working with people versus against everyone helps too. Is that what some of you are referring to as ass kissing?
Good luck Eric, you are typically fair with your statements and honest by stating your opinion with your name.
Nancy O.
Nancy, let me clear the air here.
There is a great deal about Eric's personality I like. However, I do not trust him. Eric was part of the conspiracy to have me removed from Saint Paul Issues and Forums. He and other city hall defenders from that forum didn't like me informing the public of all these dastardly shenanigans the city pulls on it's citizens.
If he would stoop this low, how low will he stoop to defend this city on the truth and housing board?
Well Bob I am not sure and only Eric can answer that question.
Everyone here at A Democracy knows that I had my fair share of issues with the city of St.Paul which yes I brought it on myself, yet I do not agree with many of the tactics that were used with my situation. It was my behavior that allowed the city to have control on my life, but that was only temporary... those days are behind me now, thank god!
With that being said I can only assume that others have had simular circumstances with the city that were not handled in an ethical and/or honest professional manner.
Nancy O.
Jeesh, folks... you can quit emailing me about Eric. I changed the title. I've said my piece. I am entitled to my opinion.
Eric, I think with the right campaign pledges you would be our first black mayor.
Damn enough is enough folks. I guess I have to kiss a little ass myself to appease my readers.
Thank you Bob for taking down that offensive title. Eric is a good man.
Oh, and congratulations Eric!
Eric isn't like most blacks.
He works.
Congratulations Eric
froggy
It's hopping in Frogtown
First and last time I comment here. I prefer the security of lurking.
I just have to say this >
Froggy, you are a bigot! Get a clue!
Ban this guy Bob. His comments reflect badly on this forum.
Congratulations Mr. Mitchell...!
William Hare
Crocus Hill
Friend of Bob's
OK, I admit I was a bit of an ass to Eric. I could have told this story without being nasty. I was upset Eric didn't come here and tell us this news. I was pondering reasons why Eric didn't come here and tell us this news. After all this is where folks get together to talk about housing and he is a big part of this forum.
I'm sorry Eric. I don't want you to quit A Democracy.
So, this is the law that the City follows when it throws away old stuff...
Mn Chapter 138.17
Subd. 7.Records management.It shall be the duty of the head of each state agency and the governing body of each county, municipality, and other subdivision of government to establish and maintain an active, continuing program for the economical and efficient management of the records of each agency, county, municipality, or other subdivision of government. Public officials shall prepare an inclusive inventory of records in their custody, to which shall be attached a schedule, approved by the head of the governmental unit or agency having custody of the records, establishing a time period for the retention or disposal of each series of records. When the schedule is unanimously approved by the records disposition panel, the head of the governmental unit or agency having custody of the records may dispose of the type of records listed in the schedule at a time and in a manner prescribed in the schedule for particular records which were created after the approval. A list of records disposed of pursuant to this subdivision shall be maintained by the governmental unit or agency. When records containing not public data as defined in section 13.02, subdivision 8a, are being disposed of under this subdivision, the records must be destroyed in a way that prevents their contents from being determined.
-snip-
The State actually doesn't want any Joe Blow that comes along to have access to forever information about you.
You think it is the evil government destroying evidence, it is actually an effort to protect you from the government hanging on to stuff about you.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
"Where is it written in ordinance that the city must keep all of those reports?"
Are you jidding me or what? Are you just a damn idiot? I don't know if it is written in an ordinance or not, and not tven being an attorney or knowing a lot about the law, I do know that you can't start destroying evidence once someone starts a lawsuit against you. Even if you could, should you? How does it make you look? Who here would want to go face a jury with the fact hanging out there that you destroyed evidence that was being asked for by the other side? This one thing alone is going to make the jury think the city is guilty if these guys ever get to trial.
Bob. This is 3:07. Thank you for changing the title, and for listening to everyone else who took issue with it. If everyone here had the same perspective on all issues, there would not be much debate or exchange of ideas on the issues and it would be a matter of time before people quit reading your blog.
I have no dog in the fight as far as the RICO lawsuits go. As a property owner, I've never felt victimized by the city and was not aware that so many people do until I started reading about it here. But I do feel bad for the people who believe that they have been wronged by the city and hope that they can get the whole thing resolved.
On one hand I think the truth in housing inspections are unfair to St. Paul property owners but on the other hand I understand the intended purpose of the inspections. I have a considerable amount of experience with and knowledge about lending practices and procedures so I hope that the information I provided was helpful to any of your readers who do not know why the inspection is required and what actually happens to the document from the time it is created.
I find the debates interesting and try to see it from both sides because sometimes I learn things from people I disagree with.
3:15 - read the law above - the state wants you to have a plan to destroy data about people.
So, the City regularly throws away old paper work.
There is nothing to suggest that the TISH reports are "evidence." What is it evidence of? The plaintiffs would be saying the same thing if all of the empty tuna fish cans were missing from the cafeteria from six years ago.
...you guys should have kept everything in the building from when we sued you...
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
You could have just noted the statute Chuck.
Thanks for copying it anyways.
But for what ?
The beef isn't that one exists or doesn't, but that the city didn't follow their own policy that they were allowed to set.
Eric, yes or no, does the TISH board use any of the information for inspections or code enforcement purposes ?
Why nine people on a board that just sits around and looks at TISH reports and for what.
Sure glad the tax payors arn't paying you guys.
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff read the job duties!!!
They don't review the reports.
They meet 4 times a year for a couple of hours. They set standards for testing the people that write the reports.
The City doesn't use the TISH reports for code enforsement. Only the RICO men want them to.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
" What is it evidence of? The plaintiffs would be saying the same thing if all of the empty tuna fish cans were missing from the cafeteria from six years ago."
Nice try Chuck, but the plaintiffs didn't ask for the tuna fish cans, they asked for the tish reports and the city had a duty to keep them. So why wouldn't they have kept them Chuck? If they were so in a hurry to throw them out, why didn't they just dump them at the plaintiff attornies offices? They knew they were supposed to keep them after being asked for them and one can only surmise that the reason they did not was because they were harmful to the city.
Chuck, then WHY is the TISH board linked at the DSI site?
I am responding to the post about abatement here only because I missed you guys on it awhile back.
PHA has very wide discretion to evict under all circumstances, including domestic situations whereas HUD only REQUIRES eviction in very rare circumstances.
I see it as somewhat invasive for the city to threaten a landlord with loss of the certificate of occupancy for domestic assault in the fifth degree on a first offence.
My main observation is that landlords and their tenants have contracts that are protected under the constitution, states shall make no laws that interfere with contractual relations other than that courts may rule on un enforceable contracts .
( Laws of unconcionability )
I don't condone domestic violence, but it is a part of social life.
If PHA residents complain to HUD about this sort of thing going on on PHA properties on a continous basis, an inspector general of HUD could be called and an investigation launched.
HUD could have that property labled as a troubled property
( TARC ) and subject to HUD appointing a different landlord to oversee and run the property until the property has cleansed itself of the problem.
Its dougbtful that this would happen in St.Paul because if domestics are occurring, they are abated and eviction usually happens right away.
Minnesota courts have their hands tied when it comes to PHa because Federal law gives so much discretion to PHAs.
If one person in the PHA unit commits an evictable act ( like a fifth degree assault ) others in the unit can suffer the same consequences even though they haven't done anything.
Most of the time it's about weapons and drugs.
Jeff Matiatos.
9:31 have someone pull up from all of the suits when was the first time the landlords asked for the TISH reports.
It is my understanding that they didn't ask for them specifically until well into the discovery phase, (4 years later). Their issue is that the City should have saved them because they should have kept every scrap of paper. The City says it had no idea that 4 years later they would decide that the TISH reports were relative to a case about DSI.
Also at the last minute the plaintiffs were asking for all of the e-mails of Susan Kimberly who was the head of Planning and Economic Development under Kelly. The City had no clue they would move the witch hunt over to PED, and did not have her emails. Why would they?
The plaintiffs gave the same argument you can't throw anything out when we sue you... and I assume if they would go as far as they did that would mean the empty tuna cans too.... might be interesting reading there.
Just for a second ask yourself when could the City throw anything away? I worked there from 1/1/90 to 12/31/97. The City was being sued by somebody all during that time and for every year after. If the plaintiffs were right then all of my phone logs of discussions with Bill Dahn would still be accessible to someone who sued the City. Bill would never get any privacy for these discussions.
At some point you don't have the right to dig through my notes about Bill. At some point you can't poke around in his past just to get your jollies. Now they are gone and Bill's privacy is protected.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
One of the landlords suing told me they were asked for in 2004 Chuck. The city is supposed to habe a 3 year rention ploicy so they should have had them back to 2001 at that point. They chose to shred them instead of turn them over. Same things with the email. They were asked for in 2004, but the city apparently thought it wise to shred them too!
...and a pixie told you something else... Bob has all of the suits, someone find anything in writing where the TISH reports were asked for in 2004.
Everything that I have seen posted here has the City saying and the judge agreeing that it was directly asked for in any of the documents until 2008.
The only reason why TISH became of interest was AFTER the Morris v Sax ruling came down from the Supreme Court. It was at that point where the landlords started looking for some kind of an angle that the City had one building code for "for sale" properties and another for rental.
...and with whatever TISH reports they have in the last three years there was no "evidence" of anything. Its all just silly.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
A pixie told me what? The guy I knwo says those tish reports were asked for in 2004 and again in 2005, as well as the emails. Regardless of that, one of the plaintiffs filed notices of claims with the city as early as 2003 and the 1st lawsuit was filed in early 2004. The city knew that the tish reports were relevant. They tried to use them against the landlords for the pete sakes. Get your act together Chuck, you don't know what you're talking about.
10:51 said :
" They tried to use them against the landlords for petes sake ".
Just how and what evidence do you have that they were using them
( Tish reports ) against the landlords ?
Why did the city believe they were relevant ?
10:51, you say things without backing them up.
Give us your name so we can send you hooked on Phonics !
"They tried to use them against the landlords for the pete sakes."
That is a lie..
Folks, the issue with the TISH was that the RICO men wanted to show that problems that they were written up for existed in many, many houses and that information was on the TISH reports that were sent to the City.
No one in the City ever used TISH reports as a method of enforcement. That is why the City had no reason to think they were relevant.
When the RICO men finally asked for them those TISH reports from 2008 show the same thing that reports in 2003 would show...that there are other houses in Saint Paul that have the same problems that their house's got written up for.
It raises the "fairness" issue, but the City has always accepted that a complaint based system will always result in some people getting called and others not.
The TISH reports only proved what both sides knew, that not everyone gets written up every day.
The RICO men then wanted to get money for the TISH reports from 2001 on not being available. The judge threw that out because there was nothing in any of the TISH reports that they had that was "evidence" in either the RICO case or the Fair Housing case and since there was no evidence in what they had, the judge can't assume that there must be evidence in what they don't have, even if they could have proved that the City should have kept them. They aren't evidence of anything.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
But Chuck, how can you show us that they didn't ?
So if something in the TISH report
mentioned a serious problem that normally would be a serious code issue, means that someone at DSI didn't do their job and you can bet it would get back to DSI by the TISH board.
Otherwise, someone could come back on the city and sue them, right ?
So case in point, I believe that the board has an unwritten rule that code issues that went unchecked must be forwarded to DSI.
This follows the basic concept of the purpose of the TISH report.
Just don't try to pull the wool over our eyes, were not stupid.
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff because your wrong and don't have a clue is no reason to dismiss your silly notion that there is a top secret rule, writen or other unwritten by a board that has no supervisory authority over DSI to direct them to do housing inspections based on a report that they have never seen because the TISH board doesn't review TISH reports...they only meet 4 times a year and that isn't what they do.
Do you ever think that it might be an idea to find out how the government works.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Well, I never mentioned a top secret rule, but people do pass things along as a matter of fact all the time.
Sort of like you calling in to the city that there is a street light out or something of that nature.
Do I have to possesses some kind of authority to do that ?
The board doesn't need to possess any special authority to do the equivilent of what could be considered a community service by placing a call to DSI and saying BY THE WAY, DID YOU KNOW !
Maybe it happens but maybe it doesn't.
Your not on this board so what makes you know so much more than us ?
I' am not suggesting that this is what they do, and it's you putting words in my mouth .
I know enough about how government works in the negative where on the other hand, your busy rubbing elbows and God knows what else with
whats wrong in government ( The asses running it ).
See ya on the next thread !
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff,
The TISH Board does not review TISH reports. Period.
Ok.
Jeff Matiatos
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