St. Paul to crack down on vacant home sales
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posted by Bob at Saturday, December 29, 2007
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Saturday, December 29, 2007
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112 Comments:
BY DAVE ORRICK
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 12/28/2007 04:48:19 PM CST
Some 1,300 vacant homes in St. Paul could be banned from being sold until they're brought up to minimum safety requirements under an aggressive measure being considered by the City Council.
The proposal, which would force owners of vacant homes to make safety repairs before sale, could have an impact on the already comatose housing market - and especially on the hundreds of homes that have become officially unoccupied as a result of foreclosure.
Homes with safety issues are usually identified by inspectors before a sale. If a house isn't on the city's official vacant housing list, it would be unaffected by the proposed measure. That city list has burgeoned in recent years, reaching a record 1,579 today. A few hundred of those buildings need no repairs at all to be occupied, but roughly 1,300 would need some repairs before anyone could move in.
Currently, those repairs can be made by developers or self-styled DIYers after buying the homes cheap.
All sorts of repairs - from improperly vented sinks to ungrounded electrical outlets to broken panes of glass - often add up to tens of thousands of dollars in repairs for homes that are vacant, but not necessarily crumbling. Under the proposal, those repairs will have to be made by the owners - often banks or other out-of-town financial entities - before they can be sold.
The crackdown is proposed by Council Member Dan Bostrom, who represents much of the city's East Side, home to many vacant houses and duplexes.
He says the current system isn't working, and the growing number of window tags identifying vacant building is dragging on city spirit.
"We have got to step in and do something, or people are going to look around and say, I'm going to get out of Dodge," Bostrom said today.
The City Council is scheduled to take up the idea Wednesday.
A more in-depth story will appear in tomorrow's Pioneer Press and on TwinCities.com.
Dave Orrick can be reached at dorrick@pioneerpress.com or 651-228-2171
You all need to be there because.
Their plan is to tear down more house. Because people are move out of the city. What is the real problem ?? Peoperty taxes is why people move out of a city.
Tear down more houses and get banks piss off. So, they will not lend money to people to buy houses.
A Real smart deal Dan B.. Put blame on something else. Not the city council. Or the city.
Its the house fault that you have raise property tax By 125 % to 600 % to the home owners.
Let me see what do I pay first my taxes or my mortgages?? Or I just move out of the city?? What Should I do?? MMMMM I will just move. It the cheap way out.
That why you have all of these vacants. Wait let the banks fix uthe house and so they charge more for the houses. Or maybe they will tear them down. It cheap to pay taxes on open lot then on lot with a house on it.
I hear property taxes going up for next year about 50% to 200 % increase. More vacant homes.
Way to to go city council. Tell the banker fixup or lose it.
Hell of a smart move. chase the banks away from Saint Paul.
Well now my houses are worth nothing now. That is hell of smart move Dan B. You need to get
the hell out of dodge.
You people at the city council are a bunch of idiots and stupid mother
f----.
George and eric you should run for city council. Oh wait, George you
like Dan B.. Call him up thank for
next year tax increase and chasing the Banker away. Your house is worth nothing now . And you will never sell it.
Leslie K. Lucht
It appears that the city has opened up Pandora's Box. Their inability to admit prior mistakes makes it worse.
Just watch as the city descends into the mire.
Hey everyone,
Bostrum’s plan misses what should be obvious. We all know that. You do NOT find new owners/occupants by making it harder to sell properties. The idea is dumb. If the council really wants to return houses to occupied status, they would try to LOWER the code compliance requirements to the minimum health and safety. However, the obvious often escapes our leaders.
I disagree with Les. No one fight this. Let it pass. Think this through – it is like handing money to investors like us. Banks are going to be very hesitant to invest another $20K, $40K, $60K, etc into these non-productive assets. It will take them months to get the processes together to even ponder bids from construction companies. By the time the bank realizes how much it will cost them to repair the building, they will look for any option. That is when we can make offers on buildings with long contract periods that give us time to rebuild the building BEFORE we close. It eliminates most of our competition. Only the financially strong (read: investors) will be able to buy the buildings!
I say, GO BOSTRUM. Seriously dumb idea. Seriously good for us.
Bill Cullen.
Bill,
I might happend that way or not.
I don'tthink that banks will do that. Its still a big risk for them. I will say it 50-50 chance that they will do that. Because
of the money it will cost. It will be $50.000.00 to $190,000.00 to fix up.
You think that a bank that lose about $150,000.00 to $250,0000.00
all ready. Well lend more money
to other to fix up and then hope that they sell it for more money.
No, I think not. Its just throw your money away. How much money is enought to throw away. Or they will go bust.
Time well tell, Bill.
Leslie K. Lucht
the properties
City Agenda 2Jan08 http://service.govdelivery.com/docs/STPAUL/STPAUL_DeptCityCouncil/STPAUL_65/STPAUL_65_20080102_en.pdf
8. Resolution – 08-05 – Approving the appointments of Councilmembers Daniel Bostrom,
Kathy Lantry, and David Thune to the Minneapolis/Saint Paul Housing Finance Board.
(GS 3047756)
26 thro 3x Tear Downs
I can't wait! I'll buy a bunch of those buildings and fill them with whatever tenants I can. After the code compliance is done there is nothing the city can do to you. I love it......rock bottom prices.....property tax abatements to lower the property tax......big tax wriote offs for fixing it up and a pool of tenants who get a quality house to trash. Thanks Bostrom. I'm waiting and lining up the money.
The loons running the city of St. Paul are coming up with yet another way to kill any chance working people have of picking up one of these "distressed" properties. The goal should be to encourage first time home buyers to get the properties at a reduced price and then fix them up themselves. This provides an incentive to improve, rather than trash, the neighborhood. Until the socialists lose control of the political agenda, it will continue to be a downward spiral for cities. Detroit west, here we come!
The blame for this mess should be put on the shoulders of Mayor Christopher Coleman and city council members Kathy Lantry, Jay Bennanav, Lee Helgren and David Thune. These elected officials, instead of cutting spending like we all have to do with our own budgets, increased city spending by over $17 million and then they raised our property taxes by over 15.1% for 2008. These same elected officials cry that the governor cut LGA, but these LGA reforms have been in effect since 2001 and the city council did not plan accordingly. Chris Coleman and the city council just spent and spent like there was no tomorrow.
The city council is more concerned with banning sugar gliders or imposing their politically correct agenda, that they do not have time to control their spending habits. St. Paul is suffering under their lack of leadership and socialism style of government. The word is out that some on the city council feel Mayor Coleman is not liberal enough and they are working to entice, Matt Entenza (Mr. tax-n-spenz ya) to run for mayor. Might as well just turn over your house now as the city is going to take it away one way or another.
To the last one out of St. Paul forget about turning out the light because there will be no electricity, just forward the electric bill to the DFL Party and Progressive Minnesota (sorry no Republicans on the city council or any other office in St. Paul for the last 20 years).
Good idea huh Repke and Eric.this city is in big trouble.Its kinda sad to see the city I grew up and do business in turn this way.Where did it go so wrong?
All I know is this, I left St.Paul 3 years ago and glad I did.I miss the old St.Paul and was sad to leave.But I came to my senses and relized St.Paul left me.
The people of St.Paul should be ashamed of their selves for electing these monkeys.Sorry all the monkeys in the world if I offended you.
This is more proff the liberal democrats can't run government.
Barb A. R.
Barb,
I'm with you 100 percent. Its just not a nice place any more. Even the supporters Eric and George can't agree on how to defend it, with tact or candor - and both don't cut it.
This City Council action is not set, but there has been a string of crazy decisions, and there will be more. I hope the landlords win decisively in court, they are not perfect, but it offers hope.
Hi All,
I have received many calls and emails about this issue today. If this proposal passes, it will have a great impact on numerous homes in St. Paul.
I encourage you all show up at the city council meeting on Wednesday and let your council member know how you feel about this proposal.
By you being involved is the only way the council will take action. If you don't get involved and let your voice be heard, then NOTHING will change and someone will make the choice for you.
Example: In the last election for mayor only 36% of the registered voters bothered to vote. Chris Coleman only received 40,601 votes. This represents only 24% of the registered voters in St. Paul (64% of St. Paul did not even bother to vote).
Recently, I was at the Truth-In-Housing meeting at Arlington High School, the place was packed. People are concerned that their property taxes have been raised by 40% over the last two years.
I encourage you to get involved and I will see you all at the next city council meeting on Wednesday, January 2, 2007 at 3:30 PM.
More information, http://www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/council/mas/council/2007/
Take care,
John Krenik
St. Paul, Minnesota
John Krenik? Who the hell are you? This is a made up name if i EVER HEARD ONE. Sounds more like just another shit talkin politician.
chuck were are you????
Maybe you could ask dave about this.
Or were he stands on this??
Well, chuck, I see that you must think that is great deal for nonprofits. A lot open land will come open. For the cdcs and other
groups. Not to pay taxes on the land.
I was just thinking It might time for me and my famliy to out of St.Paul and just leave my rentals to the bank.
Enough this enough. I have working
to better life for my famliy and the area that I live in. And city keep on change the law and requirements to run my business.
This next year will be eight year of not making money. I will pay more than $9823.00 In taxes,Mortgages of $78,780.00.that not includes other items such as heat, water and trash ,fix up and
cost city inspects , furnace inspect require by the city , lawn care and snow removal thats about an other $12,000.00.
I take in only $70,000.00 rental income. That is loss of $30568.00
for the year of 2008
Now tell me why I should stay in the city of ST.Paul And keep being a landlord. And now they are making it hard to sell properties
in St.Paul. this city sucks big time.
Let low income tenants pay the taxes and paid those asshole on the city council and the mayor.
As they screw the middle Income and the taxpayers.
Taxpayer needs to stand up. And tell the city council that they tired of be screw by them.
We are standing up and our council reps are telling us they are going to do whatever it takes to rid the neighborhoods of this plague that is trying to swallow us. Why do you think they won election again? Not because this merry bands of nothings has any influence on them, that's for sure. Your time has come and gone Les and we're running you out along with your bad tenants. You can put them up at your house as long as you think they are so great.
This comment has been removed by the author.
11:06
You sure a smart person. Maybe you going to run me out of town. But you will pay for it . High taxes and no way to sell your home.
I keep my propreties up to code for years and clear the walk way from everyoneand keep the street plow for everyone and the alley
too.
They are going to miss all of that. And me pay higher taxes than you. My tenants work and go
to school. They are not thugs.
They respect my everyone on block.
I have fight to to drug dealer off the street and hookers.
Since you all went me to move and stop be lanlord fine. You can have your f--- up city.
That is why you have all these vacants homes. And more to come.
When city is fight off the lawsuits after lawsuits. You will be hold the bag. By pay for all the lawsuits. Can say Billions of dollaers. That the city will be pay to landlords and banks. And an anyone else that file a lawsuit
because of them being dumb ass.
Just remember me when your taxes go up 50% to 150 % next year.
Leslie K. Lucht
John Krenik has a very good point. I am going to be at the city council meeting wearing bright orange in protest to their dumb idea.
Voter also
Hey folks my name is Jerry and the city knows exactly what they are doing.Since the market is in the tank they are so worried that cheap houses will over run neighborhoods and become rentals.The city has worked very hard and put their self out there to be sued.They don't want to lose any ground that they think they have gained at minimizing rental houses.
This proposal is a 2 step process.First they will make it hard to sell and then they'll follow it up with a fix up dead line that you must meet.If you don't fix it up in the required time they are going to demo it.
That is their plan folks,so don't be fooled.
This city council is foolish and sneaky.I feel as if there will be more suits to follow.
Jerry
John Krenik has my support in the next mayoral race.
I intend to donate time and money to his campaign.
He is an honest man!
John Krenik is a nut case in the pocket of of city reps. Don't be fooled. There was a lot of promises of change earlier this year and the council made a bigger move to the left by the Mayor getting his aide, Melvin Carter (son of county commissioner Toni Carter) elected over his rival, Debbie Montgomery.
Krenik will soon lie with other ademocracy challengers Bill Dahn, Sharon Anderson and the guys that challenged Thune and Harris. All gone by way of embarrassing losses.
Face it. The people of saint paul don't care for your agenda. The increase calls to code enforcement from tenants doesn't look well for landlords either.
I have known Jack Krenik for the last 25+ years. I find him to be very kind and caring. We went to school together at St. Thomas College. We have worked on many causes to help the poor. Jack has run against the "Progressives" and he has worked to build bridges between the Democratic, Republican and Independent Parties.
Jack also believes that St. Paul needs to get back to basics, public safety, restoring our city to financial health without taxing the people to death.
Jack wants St. Paul to be great again. During past year, he has talked to the citizens of St. Paul and has learned a lot.
Jack has stood up to the "Gang of Four" (Kathy Lantry, Lee Helgen, Jay Bennanav and David Thune) and Mayor Christopher Coleman. If you ever looked at St. Paul Issues Forum or Bob's Blog you would see how deeply Jack cares about St. Paul.
Bob, I too am supporting Jack for mayor.
Campaign Worker for Krenik
11:30, I supported Dave Thune and Melvin Carter for city council... They both won!
John Krenik will be our next Mayor if I have to walk every street in this city twice with information why he is the best man for the job.
That gang of four is the gang of five and a half now.
For the next four years, they have the power to over ride anything the Mayor puts forth or tries to veto.
Putting John in office, will only escalate the speed that this city is on a downward spiral.
A well-intentioned man who may do as well as Bill Dahn on a good day.
This town is 76% DFL. The only way to beat them is to run against them as a DFLers like Bostrom and the two mayors before this one. That way, you have base already of thousands. People who call themselves DFLers but are not happy with the status quo.
All other efforts are laughable and creamy.
uh, laughable and dreamy.
12:10 PM
Bob said...
11:30, I supported Dave Thune and Melvin Carter for city council... They both won!
John Krenik will be our next Mayor if I have to walk every street in this city twice with information why he is the best man for the job.
Bob tell us,
What in your eyes make this John Krenik the right guy for mayor?
"This town is 76% DFL. The only way to beat them is to run against them as a DFLers like Bostrom and the two mayors before this one."
While the above quote may be one way to beat the current political climate, the ultimate defeat for them is going to be the jury awards from the lawsuits filed against the city.
We'll see if this 76% of DFL voters think they can afford the current leadership style
12pm...you have known Mr.Krenik for 25 years and went to school or college with him, yet you fail to realize his name is John...not Jack? Gee that sure gives me a lot of confidence in your word.
2:40, "Jack" is a nickname for John.
Like "Bob" is a nickname for Robert.
You mean the lawsuits that this blog has been promoting for over a year? The suits that even if your wildest dreams come true, won't cost the taxpayers?
The city and its employees are insured. Any payout will be through the legally required liability that every single mid and major city in America carries. Not one dime will come from taxes. Therefore no taxes will have to be raised to pay for it- if you beat the city attorneys AND the mulit-billion dollar corporate attoneys who's company insure us.
76% DFL in a bad year. You keep dreaming, St Paul voters have made their choice, over and over.
With some of the posts by people threatening others and racist statements, we'll see if Bob can be any help to JFK. One political mail piece tying John F. Krenik with the statements randomly pulled form this blog- and he's down and out before they learn how to spell his name.
"John F. Krenik enjoys support from people who support racist, bigoted, classist views. Send a message this November that Saint Paul does not accept intolerance. Vote to re-elect Mayor Chris Coleman."
You put that on the front with the black and white photo of JFK with his foggyy glasses and on the back, Mayor Coleman with elected officials like Ortega, Carter, Carter, Mariani, Thao, Moua, Hardy and Street.
People may not like Chris Coleman but, they certainly aren't going to throw him out for someone who enjoys the support the likes on many from here.
So are you endorsing him Bob?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
3:15, The city is self insured.
Hi All,
I will say just one thing and leave it at that until election time.
JACK F. Krenik, like I said, is an honest man.
NOBODY can say that about this bunch running the city now. All that dirty back room BS to deprive an owner of their home. THAT'S SOME hearing those "kangaroos" have down there.
3:15
Many FINE people partiscipate in this blog. Sure we have a few nut's like Repke, Mitchell and you but we do just fine here. NOBODY else prints the news we get here.
YOU KNOW THAT!
3:15, I wasn't going to waste my time on your garbage but, you dirtied my house and now I have to "TAKE OUT THE TRASH"!
3:15 said; With some of the posts by people threatening others and racist statements, we'll see if Bob can be any help to JFK. One political mail piece tying John F. Krenik with the statements randomly pulled form this blog- and he's down and out before they learn how to spell his name.
"John F. Krenik enjoys support from people who support racist, bigoted, classist views. Send a message this November that Saint Paul does not accept intolerance. Vote to re-elect Mayor Chris Coleman."
My response- The above statement is slanderous, leave your name so I can use my "WAR CHEST" on you.
Show me ANYWHERE in this blogs history I supported racist. You can't it NEVER happened...This blog has been instrumental in exposing racist veiws. This blog is the only place in the STATE OF MINNESOTA EXPOSING CORRUPTION. And my guess is you are part of it.
Have some guts and post your name and I'll prove it in court pal!
Bob, you really don't have to defend this forum. This blog is popular because it is what it is!
Many of us who give a crap about other people have contributed to the popularity of this blog. Here is how-
A Democracy has been linked on the
Bob Zeck Show! Thanks to people who believe in what we are doing here.
Our Bob Johnson of A Democracy was ON the "Leslie Davis Show" through out the entire state. Thanks to people who believe in what we are doing here.
Even the paper Bob once worked for is promoting this blog!
http://blogs.twincities.com/blog_roll/index_politics.htm
I link this blog where ever it is appropriate. I happen to know other people who link this blog.
This forum is a God send and I am proud to be a part of it. I am proud to know you Bob Johnson. You are an example of all that is decent in men. My wife and I pray for you often.
Jim Marshall
West End
I use to live 2 doors down from 785Butternut. Rita Rodriguez and Gary Tanzer where my friends. So is Bob. We have been friends for over 35 years. Rita and Gary were good people, what this city did to them is wrong. I'll never forgive kelly and dawkins.
Someone has to pay for the wrong done to all these people hurt by code enforcement.I feel good when I see people here kicking the city around. Pay backs are a bitch!
Dave Barron
Bob,
Thanks Bob for your very kind words!
1. Yes, my name really is John Krenik and I am running for mayor of St. Paul.
2. Jack is also my nickname my family and friends gave me a long time ago.
I would be happy to answer your questions that you may have through email, as I do not want to go off-topic. My email address is; johnkrenik@q.com
I would also be willing to answer any and all questions you may have on this blog as well. Maybe there could be separate topic line for the Mayor’s race. I am willing to participate and I would hope the other mayoral contenders would also join in on the discussions on this blog.
I am very concerned at the high number of vacant homes in St. Paul. I am also very concerned at the lack of direction St. Paul is going in this area.
I look forward to talking to all of you in the future.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
To 3:15
You don't know what you are talking about.
I have worked for the city for years and I will tell without a doubt that the city of St Paul is self insured.
The taxpayers WILL pay every nickle of whatever judgement the landlords get out of them.
Has anyone ever stoped to think what things are going to be like when there are no morte laws left to be passed?
Chuck is OK with the landlords getting screwed.
Eric's OK with his own damn people getting screwed.
Everyone seems to think it's OK iof Nancy L gets screwed.
Someday we are going to wake up to a country where no more laws are needed because what will already exist will control every single aspectand every single dollar of EVERYONES life and we will them realize that we are living under communisim, but it will be too late because like in NAZI Germany, people like Eric and Chuck and George were all too eager to see everyone elses rights violated for their own selfish interests.
To quote Nancy L....."time to wake up people!" Hopefully we will do it while we still can.
"Honest John Krenik" for Mayor!
A new era in local politics!
Alex Wendt
East side
I think John will probably get the police federation endorsement.
Some advice Bob. File as a lobbist for the mayoral race.
Don't forget about Steve Schiller who haelped randy ad Andy put Rita and Gary in theirearly grave.
Steve Schiller it is time for you to stand up and tell the citizens of St.Paul what you were forced to do.You've cried over this and we need you to help stop this corruption.
Steve it is never to late!!
STAND UP AND TALK.
Dedicated to 3:15
The sneer is gone from Lantry's lip, her teeth are clenched in hate;
She pounds with cruel violence her bat upon the plate.
And now the pitcher holds the ball, and now he lets it go,
And now the air is shattered by the force of Lantry's blow.
Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright;
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light,
And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout;
But there is no joy in Mudville - mighty Lantry has struck out.
A city out of control,
and the people dumbed down to the point that they think they can do nothing to bring back their communities.
Look...a non-profit, they can bring back the businesses. (Definition of non-profit: just another way to get the taxpayers to cough up more money.)
No, look, a bad tenant, let's go after the landlords.
Wait, I know, let's make "registered vacant buildings". Then we can get rid of the low life.
(I have seen files were the inspector, the MINUTE a tenant moved out, declared the building as a registered vacant building.)
Oh no, the streets are filled will vacant buildings, let's make the banks pay for "bringing them up to code".
What, is the entire population of St. Paul suffering from formaldahyde poisoning? Or was there just too much in breeding with cousins and the IQ of the average St. Paul resident less than 80?
Oh, that's right, St. Paul is full of DFL people, who think the government is supposed to "fix" everything.
You folks can have your crazy fixes, just pay me my money so I can get out of your crazy city.
Nancy Lazaryan
That is probably just where the landlords are at with those lawsuits they brought, just give me the money for the damage you have done and they'll go. Only problem is, who's going to replace them. Wether people like them or not they did provide a valuable service and now there is going to be a void left that the taxpayers are going to have to pick up because most of the landlords are not going to rent to the lower class people who need a second chance at life. Why should they? To get persecuted, prosecuted, set up, cheated and have their business destroyed after working at them for years? These lawsuits are just the beginning of a very nasty rpoblem St Paul is going to have to own up to, and I'm not talking about just the lawusits. Wait and see what the quality of life is when the next election rolls around. Whoever's left will have their phoney made up quality of life, but will they be able to afford it?
Nancy
You said. that some people are smart enough to know the quarks of life, they are the people running government.
People are moving to the suburb's just to grain the freedom of life, as we once had in St.Paul and are losing it with the DFL'ers in power.
There's is no fairness in St.Paul, it looks like you pay government as you go just to stay in a town not worthy for the righteous.
Evan the so called lower income people are smarter, and moving to a safer place then here.
The elderly are stuck here with no extra money to move, nor can they afford to fix their homes with the so-called "code compliance" set by this city of greed.
They want people to hire union workers to do these code updates, not letting them do the easy tasks themselves.
Its not easy being a landlord.I believe it has to be one of the hardest jobs in America.You have to be real good at it to make money and stay in business to offer affordable housing.
The City chased all the seasoned investers out of St.Paul opening the door to Carlton Sheet landlords that didn't know the struggle of being a landlord.When they knew they met their match they folded the game up and quit leaving many vacants.
Thanks St.Paul for chasing out the true investors of this city.remember property owners are business owners and are an important part to neighborhoods.........Because without them you have Vacant buildings with nobody to buy them!
Landlord
NO MORE LEAD CHIPS, NANCY
da --- they must be eating the formaldehyde soaked insulation that RAP put in these homes.
"Right" BiLL?
"Bill" go tell your buddy Jesse and Dean.
They seem smart enough to have a IQ of 80?
Ha ha!
A DFL'er
DFL running the city?
Until Chris Coleman, you had 12 years of Democrat mayors who were essentially Republicans They were rejected by the DFL party yet won and governed. So much the DFL running things.
So, did all of these problems start two years ago?
7:57,
Who are you trying to fool? St. Paul has been a DFL town since Chris Coleman's dad, Nick Coleman Sr., made his power play.
The whole St. Paul State legislative delegation is DFL and on the state level both houses of government are DFL. In looking at the executive branch 3 out of the four are DFLers (Attorney General, Lori Swanson, State Auditor, Rebecca Otto, Secretary of State, Mark Ritchie).
Let’s break it down:
LGA (State Aide to cities), this was reformed back in 2003. Our mayor developed his budgets on LGA money that he knew he was not going to get. Our mayor talks like the governor cut this money, but LGA was cut on the state level back in 2003 and Chris Coleman knew this when he made up his budgets. Chris Coleman tried to have Sen. Mee Moua increase taxes WITHOUT public input during a middle of the night tax meeting (beverage tax) when he did not get an increase in LGA. Coleman even tried to use the bridge collapse special session to force more LGA. The Rybak and Coleman LGA demands held up the special session on the 35W bridge.
Next, our mayor (DFL) in these hard economic times instead of cutting his budget or staying the course, increased his budget by over $17 million thus an increase in property taxes by 15.1% (source, Truth-In-Taxes meeting). Coleman made promises to Progressive Minnesota (the folks who got him elected). This $17 Million was payback.
Lastly, Our mayor and City Council President Kathy Lantry claim that it was the 0% property tax increase budgets for the past 12 years that was the cause for such a big property tax increase, but they are wrong. They could not control spending. It is these same individuals who are saying Norm Coleman and Randy Kelly are responsible for this mess. What they do not tell you is they; the city council had to vote for these 0% budgets. Both Chris Coleman and Kathy Lantry voted for these budgets.
The only way to turn around this downward economic cycle for St. Paul is to reduce the property tax burden, by expanding the tax base like housing 5000, or bringing in developments like Bridges. This means the city is going to have to reduce their budget, something the DFL and Progressive Minnesota are unwilling to do. Just ask Jay Bennanav about raising taxes.
The current vacant home situation is a direct result of Chris Coleman's failed economic policy. Had St. Paul been a mecca for businesses, who in turn would be providing jobs because they were competitive in the marketplace we would see a very different picture here. If you think the situation is bad now, just wait until the city council requires all of these homes to be in code compliance BEFORE they are sold.
Bob a very heartfelt Happy New Year to you and a Happy New Year to the rest of you all.
All of the problems started when Kelly was elected and put Dawkins in charge of code enforcement, and Kelly was a democrat.
St. Paul is doomed in my opinion. The president of the city council is just a damn air head adn the others on the council get led around by the nose by her. They just don't have the backbone to stnad up to her and her stupid logic and ego. By the time the voters finally have had enough and get her and the others out of there it will be too late and it'll take St Paul years if not decades (if ever) to recover and get back to what it used to be. I agree with Nancy Lazaryans take on the situation. It takes people doing for themselves, not expecting government to do it for them. Especially a government that is so full of fools and cowards. St Paul is fast becoming a vortex and everything is getting sucked to the sewer.
Even though most votes were 4-3?
Of course now, with Bob and others support eh mayor has five on his side all the time and if you think the first two years we got things shoved down our throat, wait until you see the next two.
The above complainer doesn't follow city politics enough. Harris Bostrom and Montgomery were usually against the tax raises and crazy spending. Now we have the Mayors aide replacing Montgomery and Harris getting the DFL endorsement leaving Bostrom as the lone gunman.
Randy Kelly is a republican who ran as a DFler. Jay B. was endorsed by the party- Kelly never was. Kelly got beat by Coleman who was endorsed four years later. Chris Coleman is first mayor that the party put forth and won in 12 years (now 14).
You're right, people did not vote for the one of the two who opposed the higher taxes, etc; but now it will very very amusing to see if they waqnt to pay the frieght for the policies of the people they elected. Regardless of which way these lawsuits against the city go, this coming year is only the start of higher property taxes fro St Paul. It's taxpayers haven't seen anything yet!
The lawsuits- if they prevail are off-set by the state mandated liability insurance.
It like malpractice insurance for the cities.
That's why there is no fervor or fear of these suits. Besides, I gotta think the tax payers will blame the landlords for wasting our time.
Check the law again my friend. St Paul does not have to carry the laibility insurance you speak of as they are "self insured." No one to turn to except the landlords, unless of course you prefer the landlords take Como park from the city and start sub dividing it for more rentals.
I guess being an attorney with a specialty dealing with torts is not enough for you.
Listen up, or live in your dreamworld. The liability for a city or department is capped at 2 million dollars set by the legislature pushed by the insurance companies. The insurance companies wanted it at one million.
Think back to the bridge collapse, why was there only one million dollars total available for the accidental death of 13? Because the amount you can collect is capped.
Much like when you dreamed of making lots of money by buying property cheap and renting it out, so is your dream of taking all of the city's money.
Besides, since the judges and attorneys and elected officials are all corrupt (according this credible blog you got here), they'll find a million technicalities and throw your case out, or fine you for wasting the time of the tax payers.
No caps when what you are doing is illegal. And Rico affords the jury to award triple damages. Not to mention punitive damages. St. Paul is self insured so there are no third party companies to deal with, all will fall in the laps of the uninformed public. Thanks to the main stream media who finds it proper to protect the public from the truth.
Anonymous at 5:42 is correct. And, there is the whole "personal liability" of the individual people, in the employment of the government, that violated the law.
There is no "immunity" when government employees violate the law, and that includes the constitutions. They can be held civily (money) and criminally (jail time)liable.
If ANY of the civil lawsuits against the St. Paul authorities win even a penny, there will be a demand for these civil defendants to be brought to court to answer to criminal charges.
Personally, I think there is enough evidence for a state or federal grand jury to issue indictments, right now.
Nancy Lazaryan
I sleep better at night knowing that lawyers are watching.
The criminal will come after the civil is done with, as it always does in these types of cases.
Now for the insurance part. While you are partialy correct in the caps of the city, it is actually only $250,000.00, but guess what? Aside from Nancy L being correct in that there is no imunity and protection for deliberate wrong doing, all those "caps" you talk about do not apply in Federal court.....only State court.
Bankruptcy protection also will not be available to either the city of the individuals.
After the city fights 3 seperate trials with the lawsuits currently pending and the landlords mop the floor with them, guess what happens next? Everyone who ever had one of the illegal code compliances the city is so proud of will have a claim against the city. You see, the city wasn't smart enough to stop their illegal activity. They are still using code enforcement to violate peoples rights because of behavior and criminal issues, and that my friend has prevented the "staute of limitations" from even starting to run, so everything they have done since day one has created a pool of potential future plaintiffs that is going to be more than just a little interested in bringing additional lawsuits. More lawsuits like these are going to languish on for years if not decades, and whatever's left for taxpayers is going to stuck holding the bag.
I guess the only question I wonder about is if there is going to be enough Attorneys to handle them all. What do you think Clarabell?
Maybe when it is all over Kathy Lantry will explain to the voters why the city council would not do an investigation of these wrong doings. Perhaps she will explain why the city under her direction chose to spend a couple million dollars fighting when they knew from the start they were going to get hung out to dry. Maybe then she will give up her idiotic ideas about using code to address criminal issues. She may also tell us why the city thought it was OK to meet with the court behind closed doors and rig the system in the citys favor before they started any of this crap. And then finally, maybe the voters will get rid if her once and for all!
History of the Fourth Amendment
The Fourth Amendment: Unreasonable Searches and Seizures
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized."
The Fourth Amendment protection against "unreasonable searches and seizures" was adopted as a protection against the widespread invasions of privacy experienced by American colonists at the hands of the British Government. So-called "writs of assistance" gave royal officers broad discretion to conduct searches of the homes of private citizens, primarily as a way of discovering violations of strict British customs laws. This practice led to a unique awareness among our Founding Fathers of the threat to individual liberty and privacy that is created by unchecked government search powers.
Today, the Fourth Amendment has lost its preferred status among our cherished Bill of Rights Protections. In recent decades, growing concerns regarding crime and public safety in America have forced our Courts to balance the privacy rights contained in the Constitution with the ever-expanding needs of law-enforcement officers whose duty it is to investigate and arrest dangerous criminals. The Supreme Court's rulings in Fourth Amendment cases demonstrate the challenge involved in reconciling these competing ideals.
Ultimately, the Constitution's prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures has been trimmed-down in recent years and tailored to suit the needs of modern law enforcement as we wage war against drugs and terrorism. For this reason, it is important for conscientious citizens to be familiar with the lawful parameters of police authority to conduct searches, as well as the legal doctrines by which that authority is limited.
12:03 Am You are 100% correct here.
10:19 AM what is this on the 4th mean to us. Have they taken away the 4th?
12:02 Yes they have intruded on the privacy of many citizens and their rights that are suppose to be protected by the 4th Amendment, only to obtain entry to the privacy of ones home for their inspections inorder to make allegations of code violations of the people they have doomed as being less desirable to the residence of the neighborhood, thus then holding the property owner liable for the actions of the tenants.
12:28 PM,
I would like to find out more information on what you are saying.
I am not finding any information on the wire about what you are talking about.
12:34 then you are not looking, there is evidence of citizens rights being violated by code enforcement daily. You could start by reading some of the information that has been presented to the federal courts as evidence all of which have links here on the main page of A Democracy, if that doesn't tell you enough go research some of the files of the homes that have been tagged with the "Blue Card", you will have more then enough information then to see the abuse of powers that is currently happening here in St.Paul.
Ahhh, back to the RICO suits.
For the suits to win, someone will have to show that there was a conspiracy of someone to do something to someone and someone got something out of it.
So, I get who we are saying was the loser, this group of landlords. And, I kind of get who is suppose to be in on this conspiracy, Kelly, Dawkins and a bunch of inspectors and from time to time left wing council members.
But, the question that I keep asking and no on has given any answer to (and the reason I get harrassed) is who is it that gets something out of it?
Now the something that they get has to have value. There needs to be a financial winner in order to have a RICO case.
So, in the suits somehow PHA is a winner. This nonprofit is somehow suppose to reap some magical benefit out of a few landlords not renting. And, there is no explination for why Kelly and Dawkins would become conspirators to risk prison to increase the waiting lines at PHA. There is some suggestion that one or two employees may have figured out a way to make a buck on the side buying property or steering property, but nothing to show that Kelly or Dawkins or anyone at the City wanted them to have outside business interests involving property.
So, that is why this is nothing bad a sad joke on anyone who thinks this case has merrit. It fails on the basic point of RICO. Nobody is making anything out of the alledged actions.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck, we've been over this. Magner got his raise, Moermond gets job security and a position of importance, and bureaucrats get fiefdoms and 'merit' bonuses. Other wise, I can't imagine sophisticated attorneys and plaintiffs spending 4 years in courts on RICO suits for nothing. They know a lot more than me or you. May be you can ask them.
But Chuck, I think you know the score.
Welcome back Chuck, I thought that post today would be enough to get you all fired up again to defend the actions of some of the scummy city employees!
The score seems to be RICO suits 0 City of Saint Paul 4.
Sophisticated lawyers have played hundreds of cases to the end. As an attorney let me say that man times we work to ensure the credibility of the system. In doing so we still loose cases.
But in the mean time you all have fun doing so as an attorney so to speak as you collect the money! Let me guess your name starts with G****a
The end is near Repke. Conspiracies will be proven and careers will be destroyed and people will go to jail. The landlords will just simply get rich. Not much time left Chuck. The city better knock down as many houses as they can before the courts issue an injunction against them.
I am a landlord and I want everyone to know that everything I have read here regarding the accusations aginst St Paul and its inspectors is completely true.
This is more than just every day pettifoggery. This is the battle for the soul of St. Paul.
No, this is a bunch of losers having their say.
The city has not done anything close to RICO. These uneducated clowns don't even know what they're talking about. They've done what anyone who can read, somewhat, can do. They filed a lawsuit. Nothing has happened and they, like politicians, are spinning it to the best set of roses they can. They talk to only those who beleive like they do, so their on bullshit starts to sound believable.
With all of the so-called evidence, why is it taking so long? If the reason is because the court too are corrupt, then they're going to loose anyway. If the reason is they are still mounting evidence, then a settlement offered would have been out there by now. If there is nothing to do, then they'll dragg it along. Which is what they're doing.
Along the way they'll pick up more racists and bigots and they'll accept them as all they want is people who are will to complain about St Paul.
This is comical. Thank goodness the readership is only about 15.
Hmmm OK so, let me see how this works the purpose of the conspiracy is to get Magner a pay raise and Moermond job security?
Couldn't the Mayor just give them more money without having to go through all of these hoops?
Try again folks its a RICO suit about racketeering. A group of people have to get together (conspire) to hurt someone to benefit someone else. That is the essence of what a "racket" is.
So, these City employees got together to hurt these landlords so that
____(fill in the blank)____ could make more money, be in some way financially benefitted.
It can't be that they got together so that Magner could get a raise because Dawkins can give him a raise any time he wants! For the suit to have any merrit someone has to benefit or it isn't a racket and you have no case!
With me folks, they may be unfair, hurtful, spiteful, whatever and those would have the potential of being some kind of civil case against those individuals, but it won't make it a RICO case.
So, fill in the blank and call me in the morning....
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
4:20 - in another post I mentioned this but I will say it again. The current issues in court are no longer about the RICO case but about the lawyers trying to get money from the City for the City not keeping ever piece of email ever sent to the City over the last seven years. The process has been:
1. Ask to be given every email ever sent to the City.
2. Ask for money because the City does't keep them all.
3. Ask for money when the City says they can recreate them.
4. Ask for money because it takes time to recreate them.
5. Ask for money because there are so many of them.
6. Ask for money because it is going to take a long time to read them.
I would guess that the judge will soon be seeing that there is nothing left of the RICO suit and all that the plaintiffs' are doing is looking for anything that might give them a buck or cost the City a buck.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
This comment has been removed by the author.
To 9:24
It's humorous that you think the landlords are the ones dragging the lawsuit on. Actually, from reading the court papers, it's the city who is dragging it on by one delay and motion after another. That's the old "stand by strategy" when you have a losing case, just drag it out till they run out of money. So the million dollar question here is: Do you think they gonna run out of money?
Hey Repke, those attorneys probably monitor this blog and the next thing they ask for is money for trying to understand your Bullshit every time you open your mouth!
No evidence?
LOL
If you only knew what I know about the next few weeks.
Clue: attorneys in town from New York and Massachusetts both.
Any last words Chuck? You city council buddies are about to get their hats handed to them.
chuck,
I was told that city did not hand over the last of the emails on Jan02,2008. Has the judge order at the hearing on Dec. 10,2007. I was there. And watched the hearing in person. And the judge
said that the city will hand over the last of the emails to the landlord lawyers on Jan 02,2008.
I got the word today that the city
lawyers send a letter and email to the landlord lawyers that will not turn over them. Until two or three weeks from then.
I guest that the city is in some deep shit. When a Judge tell you that will do it and do not do it.
What will happend?? con temp of court.. Maybe city lawyers will do sometime in Jail????
Why keep delay the final outcome.
And the judge set a court date for
the cases to go to trial date Aug.01 ,2008. Maybe this thing will be ending soon. No more bullshit from you and dave.
I am still waiting for the information I asked from you last month.
You are just like the city.
Chuck,
You'd be entertaining if this wasn't so serious. The city had gotten dirty and vicious in its arrogance towards flesh and blood people.
At this point, the question of whether RICO is validis immaterial. The suits haven't been thrown out and are awaiting a decision.
Your treatment of the emails is twisted with partial information.
I think you are clever, but have a heart of stone.
This comment has been removed by the author.
These people on the council and in the mayors office have shit for brains.
Doesn't make any difference if it's rico or whatever it is. All the landlords have to do is get in front of a jury and that jury is going to go crazy at the way St Paul treats people. It's about time someone teaches this city something about civil right and how they apply to citizens.
Ah come on folks its a RICO case. Nancy what is the financial benefit to the City or any of the defendents in a couple of dozen less poor people in the City?
Does anyone have any numbers that there is any significant fewer poor people in the City?
Its insane. There isn't any noticiable drop of poor in the City in the last ten years.
Again, the plaintiff's started their case they got approval from the judge to depose Mayor Kelly and several council members and then decided they had no questions to ask them. It looked pretty much like the case was over and this thing would end.
But then the lawyers tried this new angle they needed every email ever sent to the City from anyone to everyone. And much to their delight they discover that the City follows data privacy rules and destroys them. So, the entire case is now that the city must have destroyed the evidence of this grand conspiracy of the unknown to benefit the unknown.
So, the big delay has been that the City has had to have I.T. people recreating all of the email from storage tape.
Sorry, no there, there folks.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Now you let the cat out of the bag so to speak Chuck. Storage tapes? You mean all the info is on storage tapes? That explains the whole thing and your too stupid to see it Repke. Tapes can be altered and manipulated and that is surely why it taking so long and encountering so much resistence. The city is altering those emails to say something different than what they really said. Figures.
This latest news is very disturbing to me. These types of capers don't seem to take too long to get from Washington to St Paul. Disgusting.
chuck,
There is about 25,000 poor people displace from St.Paul.
The email were destroyed after the lawsuit was filed. About two months after they were serve.
The city hire firm to bring them to
life. At about $300.00 per hr per persons.
That is what the city told the court on Dec 10, 2007. It would take two week and they would have
emails to give to the landlords lawyers. And the judge order the the city to turn them over on Jan 02,2008. So, who is delaying the court case ??
So, chuck its ok that the city to
refused to turn over the emails on the date that the court order them to turn over?/?
Chuck its sound like that you been talking to dave. Ask him. Why is the city is refusing to turn over
emails????
I know the anwer is that they can not restore them. The city is screw now.
Back to vacant bulding issure.
Dan B, has a hard on for everyone that buys any vacant building. Because think its not fairs for people to make money off those buildings. You will scrw anyone that try fix them. He just wants new home built. So, city do not need to finance any more low income housing for the poor.
If you do work you should not get a home. That his feelings.
This is about a whole lot more than just money. I know a couple of the landlords in the lawsuits against the city. They are not trying to delay anything. They want to get in front of a jury and present their case. What the city doesn't realize is that the longer this thing goes on the mader these guys get and the less likely there will ever be any kind of a settlement other than a jury award. From everything I've heard, it's the city who has been causing the delay Chcuk. You say that you know them, and I am wondering why you don't call them up and get your story straight?
When someone has a winning case, they go to court and present it. When someone has a losing case they stall, throw up road blocks, etc. Go figure.
Again, all I know is what I read here. I have no idea what is going on with the restorations of all of the emails that were legally deleated according to data privacy requirements in Minnesota.
What I read here is that the Plaintiff's demanded them after they were already deposing witnesses and after they had already gotten permission to depose the Mayor. This great after thought has now become the only case they have.
Garbage emails were deleated legally and we are suppose to assume there is something in them.
They have no evidence they find no conspiracy so it must exist in some unknown email that they don't even know if ever it existed.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
They did not legally delete those emials CHuck. I was at the court hearing and heard the judge tell the city that they had a legal duty to preserve those emails the minute they found out that someone was going to sue them, and that would have been years ago. The judge also told the city that the city is now going to be responsible to pay for another round of Depositions because of their illegal acts. That is in addition to the city having to pay to recreate all the truth in housing reports that they illegaly destroyed. Why do people with nothing to hide destroy evidence Chuck? You worked there and know the people on the inside, why don't you tell us why they do these types of things?
chuck
you are full of shit. You that by law that they are keep them. The day that they got server with the lawsuit.
The judge said the same thing.
You are trying to make it the landlords are the bad guys you are wrong.
Its the city that did this shit,and trying to cover it up.
You do not know whats in the emails.
So, how can say that their is nothing in them, Just keep on helping your buddies. The pay day will be here soon.
No ,more money for you.
Like I said that is the point. Nobody knows what is in the emails. There is no evidence that there would be anything important in any of the emails, but that is the case now... can the company the city has hired to restore the useless emails retrieve enough of them so that the judge is satisfied, or will these guy win money because a bunch of random emails were not able to be retrieved.
As to why they were destroyed, what I read here is that the City still believes they were responsibly getting rid of data was required by law.
As to the truth in housing, I keep seeing here that the judges says find what you have but it isn't the City's information or requirement to store.
JMONTOMEPPOF
chuck,
the point is why destory them after you received a notice of lawsuit?
YOU CAN STICK UP FOR THE CITY .
But when they keep drag their feet (city) in the lawsuit?
You just do not understand that the city is in the wrong.
When andy send emails to mayor or city council about a proprerty.
The city had no right to keep the email?? You are full of bullshit.
Andy has made statemants that he send email talking about properties and Landlord.
The Mayor did same and city council did it too.
Again, all I know is what I read here, but what the posted comments from the City have said is that they had no way to know who the plaintiff's were going to ask for emails to and from until they asked for them.
What you and the plaintiff's are saying is that every time the City is sued by anyone about anything it should stop complying with the State's data practices laws and quit deleating emails or communication from everyone about everything.
The State allows (and encourages for the privacy of the public that communicates with the government) the distruction of old communication. Your phone calls or emails about issues of your concerns should not be open to the public for review. You have a right to some privacy when conducting business with the government about your home or your taxes or your dog or your kids.
You are saying screw that! If I sue the City I have the right to look at everything that they have ever done to or with my neighbors, just because I want to.
If you are correct, then the City can never comply with the State law and get rid of old stuff because some day you might sue the City over the price of tea in China and want the ability to review my file.
The City's view is that they started saving the stuff the day that the plaintiff's asked for it. Or, at least that is what Bob has posted here.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
The price of tea in China is not criminal Chuck, but what the city inespectors do is criminal and some of them are going to serve time for it. You spew all this BS about how is the city supposed to know whos emails to keep, well how about just keeping the ones for the people being sued? That would be a good start. Isn't that what most peoples common sense would tell them? I find it very hard to beleive that the judge would order them to produce those emails if the city was in the right from the start and acted legally as you prefer to believe. When there's a conspiracy Chuck the people conspiring would have had to comuunicate their illegal schemes with each other, and email is probably the way they did it.
No, no they wouldn't. When I got a computer in City Hall January 1, 1990, I was told that anything I sent in an email would sit in the mainframe computer until they dumped, so if I sent it on the City computer it better be City business.
That was 1990 to 1998 so if people were aware of it then and informing people of it then, I would assume that everyone in the Kelly administration knew the same thing. That the data was stored until the data privacy laws kick in and the City could delete.
So, if I were a part of the WWWCTTPFLTGMAR (World Wide Conspiracy To Take Property From Landolards To Give Magner A Raise) the last thing I would do is give the code to the sectret decoding rings away in an email message.
Again, they asked for the emails at the point they were about ready to throw in the towel on this thing. They were given permission to depose the Mayor and Council and didn't have a question to ask them. It was all over. Now it is just a hope that they will get the judge give them money for the City not being able to recreate the legally deleted emails.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
One thing Chuck.
Your message and all your other messages assume that there is basic competance behind what the city is doing.
With their arrogence, and assuming that other bureaucrats would cover their behinds, they tend to get sloppy.
Also these folks are not the brightest bulbs in the country. If they had been competant in the first place, they wouldn't have had to do all this sleaze in the first place.
To plaintiffs in the RICO suits.
Please take a deep breath and try to examine the information Bob has posted here over the weeks as if you were an outsider to this issue.
It is all to clear to me you have wasted your money, the tax payers money and the city attorneys time.
The only people walking away from this lawsuit with any money is Engel and Shoemaker. Boy's they took you for a ride!
This case isn't a RICO case. It was and has been about the security of our neighborhoods. You operated shoddy businesses that eroded the stability of our communities.
You brought your financial condition upon yourselves. When are you going to accept responsibility for your mistakes and get on with your life.
From what I hear Chuck, they already have all the incriminating emails they need. There's another purpose in requesting that the city produce them.
Well Amanda for once you are right. I think those Attorneys did take these landlords for a ride. The Attorneys have them riding on the "Money Train" Amanda and it's headed for city hall to make a pick up.
Wll 12:26 they are up to 1,500,000 emails that the plaintiffs have received from the City so far. So, its a little tough to say the City is hiding something.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
That's not enough Chuck. Some of these Council members recieve that much email in a week. Sorry, you are wrong again.
Chuck we know you are a mouth piece for Dave.You state how many emails there are and only Dave would know.
Again emails were ask for when the first suit was filed in 04.The emails were distroyed in 06.They didn't put a litigation hold on them.Court rules are courts rules I didn't write them.
And again the suits are not just about RICO.The council and mayor weren't deposed due to the fact that the plaintifs could only ask certain questions.They have the right to call them again with the emails,so tell Dave and Lantry that their day is coming to talk.But that day might be when their on the stand.
Another thing Chuck the plaintifs were never going to throw in the towel when they didn't depose the council.Although it would have been fun its called strategy!!
Tell the city and Dave they are outworked and outmatched and the plaintiffs got their number!
Money Train on the way Repke. They have a special car to haul off the non profit money.
How did Repke know there were 1.5 million emails?Someone on the inside must have told him along with the bull he speaks of here.
Again, I only know what Bob posts here! This is what Bob posted the other day:
B. E-mails
Plaintiffs sought sanctions against Defendants for destroying e-mails yet, as the
Court found, “Defendants agreed to restore all available e-mails and are in the process of
recovering many of the deleted e-mails at issue.” See November 13, 2007 Order at p. 8.
Since the Court’s November 13, 2007, Order Defendants have turned over more than 1.5
million files restored from the City’s e-mail disaster recovery tapes. See Defendants’ Oral
Argument on December 10, 2007, Motion to Amend the Scheduling Order. The e-mails
that Defendants were unable to restore were sent to outside vendor Kroll Ontrack for
restoration.
----
No secret information folks. No discussions with Thune.
I sign my posts:
Just My Opinion Not Those Of My Employers Past Presnt Or Future
JMONTOMEPPOF
for a reason. I am my own person and do get to have my own oppinion. I know that there are little dicks on the list that like to go after me personally for that, but it comes because they are ignorant and believe in the black helicopters.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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