Saint Paul's inefficient street plowing.
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posted by Bob at Monday, December 13, 2010
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Monday, December 13, 2010
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39 Comments:
Hi All,
Once again year after year the Coleman administration has failed to provide it's over taxed citizens timely plowed streets.
I have had numerous request to post this story.
Even the folks of Saint Paul Issues and Forums are sounding off.
One more thing. I did notice Andy over at SPIF said his plow man wasn't responding to his phone call.
I have a few snow shoveling accounts in Saint Paul. I use a mini van to transport my guys to the accounts. Most of the time I had to use alleys to get to my customers. For the folks that don't live in Saint Paul, private contractors plow alleys in Saint Paul.
Bob,
The issue is and always will be that there are too many ass holes that don't move their cars.
That is the problem, in cities.
We have more cars than there are off street parking locations, so, we allow people to park on the street. In the suburbs its easy, no one is allowed to park on the street. So, plow drivers get a straight shot.
What happens in the cities is that the plows get slowed down driving around cars. It is much faster to plow in a straight line instead of a curved line.
The system in Saint Paul is designed to be completed in 24 hours and if people would move their cars it could be done. The Mpls system is designed to be done in 72 hours.
What happened this year was that there were so many stuck cars out there the plows weren't able to get any street even half ass done and had to do it over again. Sunday afternoon, I saw a semi truck and trailer stuck in the intersection of Eagle and Exchange that had to have been there since Sat night. Exchange was totally blocked going under the civic center ramp.
I wish we would tag more. I wish that we would tow more. I wish we had enough taggers and enough towers that we could tag the cars at 9 PM, have them towed at 10 PM and have the plow come by after they were towed to impound.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
I wish we had enough taggers and enough towers
That'd be a great make-work program for out-of-work DFL activists who are waiting for their next election cycle! Pay them a living wage (after they join the union, and have their dues deducted, naturally) to go and tag and tow cars!
Pay for it with LGA! And lay off firemen if that doesn't pass!
GO TO IT, CHUCK! Unionarbeit Macht Frei!
My day route plowing side of the street hasn't had a car on it in 2 days and it's not plowed yet.
I think your speculating Chuck.
The side of the street that was plowed was not plowed to the curb it was 2 feet short at least. Man, can you find an excuse for that Chuck ?
We were wondering if St.Paul's Mayor Christopher Coleman or the City Council members happen to own a body shop in town?
Why, because the streets are all ices at the intersections and the cheap people in St.Paul's Government would not even sand intersection to avoid accidents for its tax paying people that has to drive their own cars to work.
We all see over the years the misuses of the revenue that flows thru St.Paul Government and with Dave Thune sitting on HRA Board and controlling what they want built in St.Paul and the money flow that put Union People to work building the Sholom Nursing home on polluted condemned land that had 5 leaking Gasoline Storage Tanks on and I seen at one of the gathering of Democrat Politicians gathered there to tell the elderly inmates that are there recovering from strokes that people like Ramsey County Comm. Ortaga gathered $ 200,000 to get the project moving.
Where did Ortaga get that $ 200,000 from? Maybe the Union pitched in to get work for their workers?
I am ashamed of the loyalty that comes from City Hall, I lived in St.Paul all my life and thought it was a great town until I met these CITY HALL CROOKS and if you don't like my wording that's to bad.
We seen how St.Paul helped cover up BAD INSULATION that is causing health problems from the
1.51 PPM formaldehyde.
The Governor Jesse Ventura and U S Senator Dean Barkley were in my home on July 19, 1998 while those two SCUM of the earth were there persuading Me and James Kane to switch from Reform Party to Republican so Jesse wouldn't lose HIS talk show on KFAN Radio.
Jesse's Campaign People call My home days prior and said that Jesse and Dean Barkley wanted to meat with Kane and I on Sunday, and only have the two of us there!
CONSPIRICY is what this was called by them planing it in advance to come over to Bill Dahn's home.
GO TO YOUTUBE and watch
YouTube - JESSE VENTURA AND DEAN BERKLEY BRIBING BILL DAHN TO CHANGE POLITICAL PARTIES
Then tell ME I'm Lying
Bill Dahn with 104,000 VOTES for Minnesota Attorney General and only spent $80.00 on Business Cards.
Next Time Boys I just might win!-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shame on YOU Bill for
Calling these good people that run city hall crooks, They are just people and they try hard to pick our pockets.
So they are NOT CROOKS they could just be pick pockets, if you have a dime they want it.
Getting rich with all the cash taken in at the impound lot and towing companys giving kick backs Wow .
Well Chuck I don't buy what you are selling.
What you say makes sense on the surface to someone who has never been in the snow plowing business.
When we get heavy snow the city needs to add trucks from a reserve and hire more tow companies. Why should commerce and folks lives be put on hold due to poor city services?
And besides the city needs money to pay for the fair housing lawsuits that are going to jury trial. So tow tow tow.
from Saint Paul Issues and Forums
Latest Topics
•Snow Emergency Reset?
Yeah right the first emergency was for practice.
I think Chuck just wants to defend all his unethical friends.
St.paul has posted at the " snow plowing information " portion of it's sight, a specific explanation of it's snow plowing efforts for this recent storm.
This should answer many questions and it appears it does.
I called the office of Kevin Nelson, street maintinance engineer for St.Paul about the plows not plowing to the curb. The plows were 3 feet off on one side and 2 feet off on the other side.
Whoever took the call at 10:00 p.m. took down the info, I will be watching to see if they go back and re plow.
Call 266- 9700 24 hour line for plowing. A real person answers. HaHaHa !!!!!!!
There is a few citizens complaining their plow guy bailed on them and they can't get out of their alleys.
I got around to all my customers within 24 hours like the law suggest, and dug them out. Could have taken my time because they weren't going anywhere anyway.
Major streets are passable, however
many residential streets haven't seen a plow in 2 days. Many have plowed alleys but where are citizens going to go once they get to the street.
Now that the practice snow emergency plowing is over maybe the 2ND snow emergency is the real one.
The suburbs have had clean streets for 2 days.
Chuck says people have no where to park so the cars are all on the streets. How about taking them vacant lots where the city tore homes down plow them and use them for snow emergency parking!
Falsely given tickets at parking meters is one concern.
But You Greedy Bastards in St.Paul's Government now wants to raise money with this emergency plowing and not getting it done so people can park on the side that was plowed without being ticketed and towed their cars to the impound lot where a poor person can't afford to get their vehicle back and it ends up at a public auction or does it just get transferred to some cop or city worker like Bill Finney or Aaron Foster who has had the power to do it easily .
YouTube - Ex Police Chief Bill Finney Commits Perjury
The Mayor of Landfall said to me that "Politicians" are like "Diapers",
When they get "Dirty" they have to be change!
St.Paul and Bill Dahn has had a standing battle from early in 1996 when I got the City of St.Paul involved with a battle with RAP and they believe they are "GOD'S", but we believe HITLER is not dead He live in the heart of St.Paul City Government with their SS type Police Force and Code Enforcement,
The last time I referred to Chris Coleman and HITLER, Chris Coleman sent two SWAT BOY'S to my place to scar me about pointing the finger at the City for allowing the Sholom Nursing Home to be built on polluted land.
Bob posted the e mail I sent Chris Coleman
I Bill Dahn feels that St.Paul's Government has become Dirty enough, in the next city election let start changing some city diapers.
Our Mother told us as children that >> Enough is ENOUGH !
Thank you Bill 8:16 AM
The SS will show up again for this post
JJ
December 13, 2010
Dear Saint Paul Friends and Neighbors,
This weekend’s storm was a historic weather event, and for as frequently as we use the term ‘snow emergency,’ we now find ourselves in the middle of a snow emergency on a level we are prepared for but not accustomed to. While this is no consolation to those of you who are facing snowy streets and sidewalks, please know the City of Saint Paul is working as hard as possible to address these concerns as quickly as we can.
Across the City, our employees have been working continually since Friday night to clear the roads. Our plows are faced with the daunting task of clearing 284 million cubic feet of snow – enough to fill more than a million cement trucks. Currently, we have more than 130 pieces of equipment across the city working to clear more than 1800 lane miles of snow. It’s a historic response to a historic event, and I’m proud of the round-the-clock effort our employees are making.
Finally, it could take ten days or more to get driving conditions back to normal on every street, and we ask for patience and support as we move forward. While we currently have 88 plows clearing the snow off of City streets, this needs to be a joint effort. We are a community of neighborhoods and we will need neighbors helping neighbors to get through this. This is especially true for our elderly and disabled residents who rely on those around to pitch in and help clear their driveway and sidewalk. If you are able to help, please visit http://www.twincities.com/ for an interactive map to find those who need help.
Ultimately, clearing a storm of this size in an urban environment, working around cars on streets with heavy traffic, is a monumental challenge, but it’s a challenge the City is going to meet. We also need to be clear that this operation is not a matter of hours. It will take several days or more to get driving conditions back to normal on every street, and we ask for patience and support as we move forward.
Please direct any comments or concerns to 651-266-8989. Updates can be found by checking www.stpaul.gov or calling 651-266-PLOW (7569). Thank you for your continued patience.
Sincerely,
Chris Coleman, Mayor
Where to go For Information and Updates:
* Go online - Check out the City of Saint Paul Snow Plowing page
* Call our hotline - 651 - 266 - PLOW (7569)
* For comments and concerns - 651 - 266 - 8989
* On Facebook - Make sure to "like" the City of Saint Paul facebook page.
* Follow the City of Saint Paul on Twitter: twitter.com/cityofsaintpaul and twitter.com/stpaulpublicw
Eric
This weekend’s snowfall was one of the heaviest in St. Paul on record; in fact, it was the 5th largest snow storm in Twin Cities’ history, eclipsing even the famous Armistice Day Blizzard in the 1940’s. Here in St. Paul, Holman Field recorded a snow depth of 23.5 inches. Such a heavy accumulation requires a snow fall rate from 1.5” – 2” inches per hour.
For as frequently as we use the term ‘snow emergency’, today we find ourselves in the middle of a snow emergency on a level we are prepared for but not accustomed to.
To expedite the removal of this large volume of snow, we are partnering with Ramsey County and the Minnesota Department of Transportation (MnDOT). As of this afternoon, Ramsey County has loaned eight plows and MNDot has provided two plows to augment our efforts.
Ultimately, clearing a storm of this size in an urban environment, working around cars on streets with heavy traffic, is a monumental challenge, but it’s a challenge the City is going to meet. We also need to be clear that this operation is not a matter of hours. It could take ten days or more to get driving conditions back to normal on every street, and we ask for patience and support as we move forward.
It is important to remember we are a community of neighborhoods and we will need neighbors helping neighbors to get through this. Particularly our elderly and disabled friends who need all of us to pitch in and help them shovel.
For those willing to help, there is a great resource courtesy of the pioneer press to connect those who can help with those who need it. If you are a resident who is physically unable to clear the snow, I encourage you to go to twincities.com to enter your information into their interactive map. I am hopeful that our neighbors will step up to help.
Monday’s Update:
As this morning, we’ve cleared 100% of our primary roads and loop, 95% of our north-south night routes, and roughly 50% of our east-west day routes. We have more than 130 pieces of equipment across the city working to clear more than 1800 lane miles of snow. It’s a historic response to a historic event.
FAQs
When will my street be plowed?
With over 130 pieces of equipment on the streets, we are clearing residential streets as fast as conditions permit. The bottom line is that this storm dumped more than 284 million cubic feet of snow on our streets – enough to fill more than a million cement trucks.
While we will continue to work around the clock until all streets are plowed, we are looking at ten days or more until driving conditions return to normal on every street. We ask for patience and support as we move forward.
Will you tag and tow my car if isn’t moved?
In order for City plows to effectively remove snow from all Saint Paul streets, normal snow emergency parking restrictions will remain in force for the duration of the snow emergency.
Why did we call a second snow emergency?
As frequently as we use the term ‘snow emergency’, today we find ourselves in the middle of a snow emergency on a level we are prepared for but not accustomed to. By calling the second emergency, residents were provided with additional time to move their cars and plowing operations were able to focus on clearing any streets which hadn’t been finished yet.
What about snow removal downtown?
Snow removal downtown will begin at 10:00 p.m. tonight. Snow that is hauled away from downtown is deposited at one of the City maintenance yards located on Pleasant and View streets.
What made this snowfall so different!
As the 5th largest snowstorm in Twin Cities’ history, the amount of snow made this very different from past snowstorms. Across the City, our employees have been working straight since Friday night to clear the roads, even in the midst of a 2” an hour accumulation.
While the amount of snow is something we are not accustomed to, the City of Saint Paul is prepared. As we move forward, residents are encouraged to check www.stpaul.gov or call 651-266-PLOW (7569) for ongoing updates.
--------------
Eric
The issue is and always will be that there are too many ass holes that don't move their cars.
That is the problem, in cities.
JMONTOMEPPOF aka Chuck Repke 10:50 AM
Chuck some of us ass holes didn't milk the city as you and your friend Dave Thune and the other DFLers do, so they don't live where they have a garage like you.
I think you and the St.Paul Mayor sounds as if you are twins and most of your love and kindness went in the trash with the after birth.
Your Friend Bill Dahn
Eric
Just follow the city to federal court with the landlords, the city says one thing and does the contrary.
St.Paul is the true law brakers.
Bob, as to the hiring towing companies... back in the 80's there was an effort to start to privatize some of the plowing. A contract was awarded to a private company to plow all of the West Side Streets, another company got the contract to plow East Side culde sacs...
You know what happened?
The 1991 Halloween storm.
And, guess how the private guys did?
They stunk.
The company with the West Side contract got one plow out and it got stuck on Ohio Hill.
The East Side contractor just didn't do it.
Both companies were fired during the snow emergency and the City had to send plows from other parts of town to do the work.
Don't even think about getting private firms to plow.
As to the towing, two issues: first getting people tagged.... in really bad snow, the taggers don't show up for work, because they can't drive the streets to put out the tags.
Then towing... the city has offered the towing out on routes as a contract. I would prefer if they just gave an open hunting on anyone with tags if you had a license in Saint Paul, but because of liability the City likes having people under contract to do it.
The issue in this bad of weather is just what I said. If the night plow routes don't get done in the allotted time because of cars stuck all over the freaking place, then you fall behind.
I know on Sunday on the West Side at some point the plow just did one shot down the middle on the side streets. It was pointless to try to do any more because every thirty, forty feet there was a car on one side and then the other.
I don't know what was the issue on your street and why the plow did what the plow did. I am sure that at the time it made sense to the plow driver...
You just saw the 5th largest snow fall in the last 100 years. Of course there are going to be issues.
And, Bill please, if you think they make money from the tags, you are a bigger idiot than I thought.
The City loses a ton of money every time they have to deal with snow issues.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
I don't think Chuck understands how important it is for the city to plow the streets correctly.
If you got streets that are plowed 2-3 feet short of the curb on both sides, you end up with one lane for drivers driving both directions and I would find it a matter of public safety that should I open my car door to get out that either I might get nailed or at the very least my door gets ripped off.
Very important to plow correctly and this was not done even when the plows did plow.
Jeff Matiatos
lol
I worked for a council member between 1/1/90 and 12/31/97... I have taken complaint calls and have been out there dealing with snow issues... I was there when Thune pushed to change the system from being 3 days of plowing to 24 hours.
Are you old enough to remember the old system?
On the night after the storm they plowed snow emergency streets only.
The next day they plowed East - West.
And, the day after that they plowed North - South.
We knocked 48 hours out of the system.
Yes, Jeff I understand the importance of plowing the street to the curb.
I wonder if you understand the dynamics of driving a plow twenty miles an hour pushing two feet of snow?
What happens is that you start on the curb line and then forty feet before you hit a car that is stuck on the curb lane you need to begin to pull away from the curb and angle back out into the middle of the street. Then once you are sure that you have cleared the car you slowly start to angle back towards the curb lane.
Of course, there is NOTHING to mark a curb lane and there are snow drifts the same height from the middle of the road to the front door of the houses, so you do your best to keep inching over to the curb lane. Once you have successfully lined up the curb lane, you once again have to begin to pull away from the curb to avoid hitting the next person whose car is in the street.
The plows actually work best when they are able to operate in tandem. When two of them can actually run almost side by side and push the snow from the middle of the street to the curb.
But that falls apart entirely once you have cars on the curb line. The drivers have to give it up.
There were cars stuck everywhere.
You can't blame that on the plows, they have to plow around them.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
No question that the plows are having more work than they can handle, I am just saying that if one plow guy can do a curb to curb plow job than so can another.
Again, whats going on when there are no cars on either side of the street and the plow has a straight line to work with ? Perhalps a new plow guy on the route thats all I can figure. It's not always about snowbirds.
Jeff Matiatos
As my truck exited the last plowed stretch of Smith Ave and entered St. Paul, just after I engaged 4-wheel drive, I found myself thinking...gee, how lucky Saint Paul is to leadership dedicated enough to keep a Bicycle Advisory Board afloat, even when their state aid is cut.
As I negotiated the lovely deer path named St. Clair St., I marvelled at the wonderous Mayor who, despite having lost millions in state tax slush funds, fought off mean spirited detractors that pointed out the state and county already had redundant offices to push through a triply redundant Human Rights Department for the city.
As I credited myself for foresight while I used the reinforced bumper I installed last summer to push a buried Volvo on to it's side (making damn sure I scraped the "Wellstoned!" sticker off, along with the bumper), enabling myself and my grateful fellow travellers to negotiate Palace Ave., I recalled the foresight of Saint Paul's scary smart, reality based city council for having installed $18 million dollars worth of "green roofs", although I aver I cannot explain why.
Therefore, I'm speechless at the smear campaign being run by the school district.
How dare they suggest the city failed to provide streets safe enough to transport their kids to school on?
What do those people think a measly 46% tax increase buys these days?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Swiftee,
My kid works in West Saint Paul and drove Smith on Saturday afternoon around 2 PM.
There were ten as in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 cars stuck on Smith Avenue between George and Annapolis.
I assume the plows were supposed to just push them out of the way...
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck,
Trying to talk explain logic to Swiftee is like trying to explain the Battle of Corinth to the neighbors yapping Peek-a-Poo mix. Its best to ignore it, since she can't hurt you. Or, if its really annoying, punt that little yapper into the next yard.
Swiftee comes in here to yap away seeking attention.
Eric
we'll get bill to run for mayor, he'll at least will keep the streets clean and then people can get to work.
To Mayor Coleleman
Hello All its Bill Dahn here
IT'S TO COLD TO GET STUCK !
www.BillDahn.com
IS CHRIS COLEMAN's Street Better then the rest of the town?
To the head honcho St Paul's Mayor if your street was cleared and the cross street where Ortaga lives is clear and the rest of St.Paul is not clear enough we will start bringing out the fact where is the money being spent that should go for plows, sand and salt trucks, is this tax revenue going in some city officials pockets or is it going in some union crooks pockets?
Dorothy Day street where JESUS TRUCK FEEDS THE HOMELESS was not plowed and we feed the poor and the homeless there from the Jesus Delivers Truck anyway
JESUS Delivers Food for the Body and Soul
Serve from the Truck >>> Photo Scrapbook
The Picture of Don...
Here is Donald Dahn the first cook and driver of The Jesus Truck St.Paul, MN.
Trying to talk explain logic to Swiftee is like trying to explain the Battle of Corinth to the neighbors yapping Peek-a-Poo mix
Oooh! Someone with a yappy dog for a neigbhbor just read about the Battle of Corinth for the first time!
Yay, Eric! What a very special effort!
Sorry you Led ripoff but, i learned about one the battles while in the Eighth Grade. In college I studied on the other ones.
So instead of adding anything worth reading you state an 'I bet you just found that out' kind of response?
Well, which battle are you referring to? My wife and heard a reference to it the other day and we both got into a discussion on the reference. So, which is it you refer to? Or, did you just discover something and now are scrambling to see what you missed?
Eric
(word verification has my name in it- awesome!!!)
"There were ten as in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 cars stuck on Smith Avenue between George and Annapolis."
Right. Because south of Annapolis lies a magical land where city governments plow the streets and leave the grass on lawns instead of putting it on roofs.
Now I did't happen to see 10 cars stuck (then again I wasn't seeing double), but it wouldn't surprise me considering the fact that 4-wheel drive was manditory on SP streets.
I know I didn't see a single car stuck on Smith South of Annapolis...probably because it had been plowed.
Eric is demonstrating the upside of not having the wherewithal to own your own PC. When you use the public library's machines, you can ask someone near you to read off the titles of books for you to post.
Then everyone will think you're teh smert.
Rock on, Eric; you make witlessness look good!
The City has a excuses for every thing they do or don't do.
Bill Dahn
Opps the city of Saint Paul plows skipped 2 streets downtown
The whole city government is a snow job. Its dozers only plow BS.
Why is it that private citizens get tickets for not shoveling their sidewalks correctly but the city is allowed to not plow to the curb. Last winter, at least in the St Paul Midway, the plows were 3 to 4 feet away from the curb at many of the residential street intersections. Even at corners with fire hydrands. Now why couldn't they come back and clean those out? We had much last snow last year. No wonder why residents are fed up.
Typo correction. We had "much" less snow last year.
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