The Great Saint Paul Land Grab, Part III
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posted by Bob at Friday, July 25, 2008
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Friday, July 25, 2008
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SHHHH! While we listen to words of wisdom from a wise man.
Conscience is the light of the Soul that burns within the chambers of our psychological heart. It is as real as life is. It raises the voice in protest whenever anything is thought of or done contrary to the righteousness. Conscience is a form of truth that has been transferred through our genetic stock in the form of the knowledge of our own acts and feelings as right or wrong. A virtuous and courageous person can alone use the instrument of conscience. He or she can alone hear the inner voice of the soul clearly. In a wicked person this faculty is absent. The sensitive nature of his / her conscience has been destroyed by sin or corruption. Hence he or she is unable to discriminate right from wrong. Those who are leading organizations, business enterprises, institutions and governments should develop this virtue of the ability to use their own conscience. This wisdom of using the clean conscience will enable them to enjoy the freedom.
Dr APJ Kalam, President of India given during the inauguration of the seminar on “THE EFFECTS OF CORRUPTION ON GOOD GOVERNANCE AND HUMAN RIGHTS
Previous Posts
- Saint Paul/Ford to keep St. Paul plant open until ...
- Lantry Letter/ Dear Nancy :-)
- Foster acquitted; courtroom shocked
- Saint Paul/Luxor Lounge City Council Resolution 3...
- Winn wanted restraining order, trial witness says
- Our friend William McGaughey is Independence Party...
- St. Paul / Power shutoffs increase fourfold
- Saint Paul/ Council Woman Kathy Lantry Goes Bonker...
- Mortgage Company Wheeling And Dealing With City of...
- The Great Saint Paul Land Grab Part 1
27 Comments:
In the end St Paul will pay handsomely for what they've done and not done. When Lantry and her gang are long gone and the city is like detroit, the lazy taxpayers and voters who were too cowardly or self serving to stand up against this assault on property rights will be left to pay the frieght.
or, Saint Paul will become a city known for its quality of life and solid housing stock whether you rent or own. Slumlords will take up shop in Alabama and Mississippi.
Ask Mitch what it takes to get a rental license in the nearby suburbs. It makes the Certificate of Occupancy look like a gift certificate.
Eric
Hey Shot in the Dark Thanks for site
Any of you read the 10 planks of the Communistic Manifesto:http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html
(1). Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)
Correct URL
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Communistic+Manifesto&btnG=Google+Search
Hi All,
When you read the story at Mitch's blog, check out some of the comments. It appears many of his readers are coming to the same conclusion most of us have.
If the city council's voter base wasn't so "ignorant", they would run these guy's out of office with brooms and pitch forks.
eric,
the city of St.Paul will know of the cityof million of lawsuits.
Come live here for three months and file lawsuit and win thousands of dollars from the city council.
Bob,
That sounds like the conservative bloggers feel the better than the people. i know how they feel. I felt the same way when Bush got elected. I felt the ignorant voters knew not what they did.
Ignorant voters have the same power as the intellectual know it all voters. Thanks god.
Most of those people who commented on there are your regular haters of cities and people who live there. Mitch very often has to defend his desire to stay in the city. These people don't respect you or value what you do.
Keep propping them up.
9:16
A million lawsuits in a town of less than 300 thousand?
More like a million complaints from three people.
Eric
I was born and raised in St. Paul Eric and have always been proud of it. I left St. Paul because of the right violations I saw done to people I personally knew by city inspectors. It made me afraid of the government in general and that fright seems to be well founded with what I've read here and the city's response to it. Where else but in your imagination and the movie houses could there be such serious allegations, which now seem to be backed up with plenty of evidence and the city not only does nothing, but the people charged are not even tranferred to a different job until the mess gets sorted out? They're still out doing what they've always done according to different people I've talked to that still live in the city.
I comment here and am not a hater of any city or people.
Eric said;
Most of those people who commented on there are your regular haters of cities and people who live there. Mitch very often has to defend his desire to stay in the city. These people don't respect you or value what you do.
my response;
As I have stated in the past
"It is better to be hated by many for who I am, than to be loved by one for who I am not"
I do what I do because nobody but me has to live with my conscience.
SHHHH! While we listen to words of wisdom from a wise man. Conscience is the light of the Soul that burns within the chambers of our psychological heart. It is as real as life is. It raises the voice in protest whenever anything is thought of or done contrary to the righteousness. Conscience is a form of truth that has been transferred through our genetic stock in the form of the knowledge of our own acts and feelings as right or wrong. A virtuous and courageous person can alone use the instrument of conscience. He or she can alone hear the inner voice of the soul clearly. In a wicked person this faculty is absent. The sensitive nature of his / her conscience has been destroyed by sin or corruption. Hence he or she is unable to discriminate right from wrong. Those who are leading organizations, business enterprises, institutions and governments should develop this virtue of the ability to use their own conscience. This wisdom of using the clean conscience will enable them to enjoy the freedom. Dr APJ Kalam, President of India given during the inauguration of the seminar on “THE EFFECTS OF CORRUPTION ON GOOD GOVERNANCE AND HUMAN RIGHTS
Eric said;
Most of those people who commented on there are your regular haters of cities and people who live there. Mitch very often has to defend his desire to stay in the city. These people don't respect you or value what you do.
I say-
Eric, is trying to "Divide and Conquer". In the past, Mitch has linked the "A Democracy" blog at his blog "Shot In The Dark" .
or, Saint Paul will become a city known for its quality of life and solid housing stock whether you rent or own.
By fiat, nonetheless!
Economics 101, Eric; when ou try to make something worth other than what people are naturally willing to pay for it, it creates unintended consequences.
Slumlords will take up shop in Alabama and Mississippi.
Well, until they pass a law banning slums, at least.
In fact, what'd happen if the whole nation passed a law banning slums?
We'll be talking about this on Shot in the near future.
Ask Mitch what it takes to get a rental license in the nearby suburbs. It makes the Certificate of Occupancy look like a gift certificate.
Perhaps, but the 'burbs don't have a foreclosure crisis (nothing like Mpls and StP, anyhoo), and their housing stock is largely newer and less distressed. Above all, they don't have a huge surplus of it.
The problem isn't that Saint Paul has vacant, sub"standard" properties. It's that we have so bloody much of it, and property owners have so many better options.
My suspicions;
The homes that aren't brought up to present day code standards will be demolished, then the city's friends in non-profits and developers can come in and build condos for a higher property tax base on the existing lots.
What is left in the wake of this city's leaderships objectives?
Blighted neighborhoods with vacant homes that have very little to no resale value.
Increase in policing expenditure over complaints of neighbors seeing activity at these vacant homes homes. Increase in crime as the availability of affordable housing dwindles.
A loss of confidence from mortgage companies and banking institutions investing in Saint Paul.
The decay of citizens confidence and trust in city governments ability to lead.
The horrific part of this deal is how the city has striped some home owners of their property through what appears to be very malicious means. Destroying these property owners financially and in some cases causing emotionally issues in marriages that have lead to families separating.
Give up Eric, your friend Mr. Choi must have informed you the end is near.
St. Paul has 3 times the number of vacant houses that Minneapolis has and Minneapolis has far more people living there. I wonder why? Couldn't be inspections could it?
What is left in the wake of this city's leaderships objectives?
Blighted neighborhoods with vacant homes that have very little to no resale value.
Have you driven through some of our neighborhoods lately? Past policies of loose code enforcement and low standards for those wanted to rent out single family, duplex and tri-plexes have led to just what you mentioned above.
Increase in policing expenditure over complaints of neighbors seeing activity at these vacant homes homes. Increase in crime as the availability of affordable housing dwindles.
Did you pay attention to the last election? I'm not being facetious but the increase funding in policing is something that was universal across the city and the Mayor has begun following through on that last month with about 25 or so new cops and another 25 this fall.
There is no shortage of affordable housing. At least at the current rate of what is considered affordable. Every single new development must include affordable housing units.
We have a large stock of older housing.
A loss of confidence from mortgage companies and banking institutions investing in Saint Paul
Every year since 2001 St Paul has received AAA bond rating indicating the highest level of confidence in the city's financial health.
Eric
I said;
What is left in the wake of this city's leaderships objectives?
Blighted neighborhoods with vacant homes that have very little to no resale value.
Eric's response;
Have you driven through some of our neighborhoods lately? Past policies of loose code enforcement and low standards for those wanted to rent out single family, duplex and tri-plexes have led to just what you mentioned above.
my reply;
I get around Saint Paul often Eric. These homes you speak of in foreclosure are sitting vacant and most will stay that way because with the current city ordinance the homes are not marketable. But then I suspect many of you mover and shakers within the city already know this.
I said;
Increase in policing expenditure over complaints of neighbors seeing activity at these vacant homes. Increase in crime as the availability of affordable housing dwindles.
Eric's response;
Did you pay attention to the last election? I'm not being facetious but the increase funding in policing is something that was universal across the city and the Mayor has begun following through on that last month with about 25 or so new cops and another 25 this fall.
my reply;
you bet I did, and if I had passed out the A Democracy News Letter like I had intended Helgen would not be on the city council. I am confident I could of had an impact on the small margin of votes he received to win over Haas. I am OK with the increased funding for police. We needed it because crime is increasing as predicted with the current policies concerning housing.
Eric said;
There is no shortage of affordable housing. At least at the current rate of what is considered affordable. Every single new development must include affordable housing units.
We have a large stock of older housing.
my reply;
Like I said the BULK of affordable rental housing is sitting in foreclosure or a condemned status. Someone half blind can be driven through Frogtown and Dayton's Bluff and see the blue placards on what was once affordable rental housing.
Let's make it clear to the readers what you consider affordable housing Eric. Some who earns $45,000 plus a year could afford it.
Most of the city's affordable housing stock is sitting in foreclosure or condemned by the city and is currently vacant as I said with little to no resale value.
I said;
A loss of confidence from mortgage companies and banking institutions investing in Saint Paul
Eric's Response;
Every year since 2001 St Paul has received AAA bond rating indicating the highest level of confidence in the city's financial health.
my response;
Wait until next year's bond rating comes out Eric. The city didn't start these DUMB policies until after the rating had came out.
I and others who have posted here have spoken with bankers and Investors.
Actually Bob these bond ratings are post the policies you stand against.
What makes you think that analysts at financial institutions would be against cities forcing landlords to maintain their property at a reasonable level? Look at the the top livable cities in Money magazine, and then go to those city websites and look up some of their codes and requirements for rental property.
Part of the research behind council legislation is the effect it will have in the city. City Finance must have been confident that these policies would not only maintain but strengthen an already great rating.
You know Bob, its tough to present a view when people aren't aware of some of the basics of what they're talking about.
In this case we're actually talking about low-income and no-income housing. So that includes section 8 and other types of subsidized housing.
All of you can take a lesson from Mitch Berg. I agree with everything he wrote, today- though he didn't necessarily disagree with what I wrote. He's a staunch conservative who has the intellect to back it up and concedes a good point. We are two that have been presenting opposite views on E-Democracy for about 10 or 11 years. He loves Saint Paul and does his homework.
Eric
Eric, Mitch isn't saying a damn thing we haven't been saying here for months and you know it.
Eric has it all figured out so everyone just sit back and watch the show. It's all gonna be OK.....right Eric?
Eric said;
Actually Bob these bond ratings are post the policies you stand against.
my response;
We are speaking of new ordinances Eric which have rendered vacant housing cat1's and 2's undesirable for resale. A full present day code compliance to occupy.
Folks can buy else where and avoid the headache.
Eric said;
What makes you think that analysts at financial institutions would be against cities forcing landlords to maintain their property at a reasonable level? Look at the the top livable cities in Money magazine, and then go to those city websites and look up some of their codes and requirements for rental property.
my response;
This has nothing to do with landlords maintaining their property. It is about city ordinances that have rendered the vacant housing stock of cat 2 and 3's virtually unmarketable. What is the mortgage companies interest? You know as well as I do they are going to take huge losses on top of the foreclosures because folks can find more desirable properties someplace other than Saint Paul with out having to do a full code compliance.
Of coarse this forces mortgage companies to sell real cheap to your non-profit friends Eric. It also sets up favored developers for all kinds of work.
At what cost? The loss of affordable housing for "real" low income folks. I know in Eric's and Chucks perfect world all poor people would be watched over in public housing. I am starting to think there is a secret club of commies attempting to over throw Saint Paul's City government. :-)
Eric said;
Part of the research behind council legislation is the effect it will have in the city. City Finance must have been confident that these policies would not only maintain but strengthen an already great rating.
my response;
I bet they did research Eric. They figured if they could run enough low income families out of town the tax payers could save on human services, medical cost for the poor, policing, the courts and corrections. Only thing is they didn't plan on the fallout for such misguided policies. The low road of civil rights violations seemed a easy road to travel versus the high road of bringing our city to higher standards while preserving the integrity of city government. They thought the litigation would be cheaper, and after all most folks don't have the money to take on the city. They were wrong,and determined citizens are pooling their money and intend to sue this city all the way to the supreme court over housing issues.
Eric said;
We are two that have been presenting opposite views on E-Democracy for about 10 or 11 years. He loves Saint Paul and does his homework.
my response;
I do my home work also Eric. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY covers Saint Paul and housing like this blog.
Explain why Kalis (a city code inspector) has a cat1 rating on his vacant building when he should have a cat3? You won't, you can't, and neither will Kessler answer that question.
Explain to us why Kalis gets his delinquent utility bill of this building assessed to his property tax, a dump of a building that should be demolished when only 2 blocks away there is 2 homes one is new and the other looks new condemned for failure to pay the water bill.
Hey didn't we see photos here of City Councilman Thunes home looking like a dump? Other citizens would of had to have a FULL code compliance.
Oh boy, I love this one. We also learned right here that E Democracy is a hot bed for REAL COMMIES! Heck they even introduced themselves at one of the Mayors get togethers. Doing stuff like painting BIG red stars on their homes. WOW! These are your friends at E Democracy Eric.
One story after another here of doing my homework Eric. Way to much to list.
11:01
What about the people making $15,000.00 on minimum wage? Where they supposed to live you moron? You're about as disingenuous as a three dollar bill. There is a critical shortgae of affordable housing and you know it liar.
At at different time I would have given you opportunity to tell me that to my face. In the last few months I've learned that if you are too cowardly to sign your name to your words, you surely are too much of coward to back them up in person. So, your insult goes into the 'Yet, Another Anonymous Internet Tough Guy'.
However, your post should stand as you show us you can read. I'll make it bold for you:
In this case we're actually talking about low-income and no-income housing. So that includes section 8 and other types of subsidized housing.
That was written at 10:21, the same post you're screeching about. Have good one.
--------------------------------
Bob,
You've got a hodge-podge of innuendo and McCarthyism in that post. At this point, its makes not sense to respond to innuendo and hypothetical conspiracy. You starting to fit right in with some.
1. You are still figuring me out. My buddys in non-profits? Sorry, but you got the wrong guy. I'm on record several places dismissing non-profits. I'm not from that wing of activism.
However, no one can dismiss all non-profits. One conversation with any of you on here and I'll find three non-profits that you like an appreciate. They're like politicians. You like the ons you like, and hate the ones you don't. By the way, our Hospital is a non-profit. Should we get rid of that too?
2.Communism is not a dirty word anymore. This isn't 1952. Especially since we invade countries with secular governments and leave little Communist ones like Cuba (90 miles from America) alone. We trade with Communist China like nobody's business and they now own a huge part of our national debt.
So, does your 'Better dead than Red' attitude on extend to local policies you disagree with or do you really take a vocal stand against real communism as you shop Wal Mart and other 'American' businesses that contribute to the lopsided trade?
3. E-Democracy has been around a long time. The St Paul Issues Forum of it is pretty new over the last five years or so. Mitch and I were on a listserve (as opposed to a blog- no such thing back then) with a lot of other people that was statewide and it had some pretty damn good debates. Again Bob, your homework seems to be based on your world view that everything begins and ends in Saint Paul.
I don't talk about the Kalis issue because I don't know. I don't know him. I am not familiar with the issue or why it turned out like it did. That's the difference between myself and your vocal majority on here. Even saying that, I did give you a name and contact for that group to see why they fast-tracked it. But, I'm sure no one called or talked to anyone in District Four. You have already drawn your conclusion and facts be damned, even if those conversation support what you already suppose.
That's actually the MO of this blog. Shoot first, shoot again, don't ever ask questions.
Some of these anonymous people on here would be dangerous if you had a clue. You don't so I find you entertaining.
Bob, its disappointing to see you in this.
Eric
I wanted to join Eric in questioning your pretence Bob.
The question to you should be, if more than 2,000 homes are in forecloser and have gone vacant because of the WORLD WIDE credit mess, what should the City do? You are flat out wrong if you think they went vacant because on inspections. They went vacant because of forecloser and are now getting inspected.
The City has responded by saying, yes, some of the worst crap out there we want to either buy to demo ourselves or if the home owner doesn't fix the place and it is a big enough health risk the City will demo it.
You can not tell me that the average person in Saint Paul would rather live next to a boarded building than a vacant lot. It is the City's job to look out for the health and welfare of those of us who are still here not the some bank in Germany.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck said;
You can not tell me that the average person in Saint Paul would rather live next to a boarded building than a vacant lot. It is the City's job to look out for the health and welfare of those of us who are still here not the some bank in Germany.
my response;
Chuck I have NEVER claimed and you can not show me a statement I made saying more than 2000 homes in Saint Paul are a direct result of code inspections.
The vast majority of vacant homes are foreclosures. Also, I am not saying a neighbor would rather live next to a vacant house versus a vacant lot. You like to choose my objectives for me. The homes you are so anxious to demolish so you can make money off those vacant lots would be marketable if the city didn't intentionally make them unmarketable through unreasonable housing codes.
That bank you claim is in Germany isn't in Germany Chuck. Many are lending institutions right here in Saint Paul.
Chuck said;
The question to you should be, if more than 2,000 homes are in foreclosure and have gone vacant because of the WORLD WIDE credit mess, what should the City do?
my response
A recap of what is going on now.
The city has passed building code ordinances that require a vacant house to be brought up to present day code. No consideration to Grandfather laws.
Many of the homes being demolished have had thousands of dollars already invested into them. They could be saved with what investors term "paint and carpet buys".
Many of these homes that have been registered cat2's or 3's could be moved to a cat1. The city should start a screening process and have an INDEPENDANT structural engineer from "tim buck too" inspect the current vacant homes. This would automatically increase the value of much of the housing stock sitting vacant. It would make the homes more desirable to interested buyers.
I think this solution gives oppurtunity to a larger group of interested parties versus the current ordinances which sort of bring the bulk of all this housing stock to a small group of people who are close to the city.
Eric said;
Bob,
You've got a hodge-podge of innuendo and McCarthyism in that post. At this point, its makes not sense to respond to innuendo and hypothetical conspiracy. You starting to fit right in with some.
my response;
This didn't stop you from typing
8" of drive bys directed at me.
Eric said;
1. You are still figuring me out. My buddys in non-profits? Sorry, but you got the wrong guy. I'm on record several places dismissing non-profits. I'm not from that wing of activism.
I will give you this Eric. I was thinking of our friend Chuck when I was responding to you. :-) I think I know you real well after almost 3 years of exchanges.
Eric said;
However, no one can dismiss all non-profits. One conversation with any of you on here and I'll find three non-profits that you like an appreciate. They're like politicians. You like the ons you like, and hate the ones you don't. By the way, our Hospital is a non-profit. Should we get rid of that too?
my response;
I agree there is some very good non-profits. On the other hand there is a few here in Saint Paul who stand in line to take advantage of the housing crisis stock,some real DIRTY BIRDS in that bunch. Kind of folks who would let children and homeless people stripe asbestos siding off a house.
Eric said;
2.Communism is not a dirty word anymore. This isn't 1952. Especially since we invade countries with secular governments and leave little Communist ones like Cuba (90 miles from America) alone. We trade with Communist China like nobody's business and they now own a huge part of our national debt.
my response;
It isn't a dirty word Eric, however, it isn't something the majority of Americans gravitate too. Only in your circles is this prevalent.
Eric said;
So, does your 'Better dead than Red' attitude on extend to local policies you disagree with or do you really take a vocal stand against real communism as you shop Wal Mart and other 'American' businesses that contribute to the lopsided trade?
my response;
First of all Eric, I DO NOT shop WALMART. Garbage product of dollar store quality. They treat you like a criminal when leaving Walmart, searching bags and checking receipts. I maintain my dignity and shop at Target. I was sold on NAFTA. Not anymore! I happen to agree with Barney Frank on this one.
Eric said;
I don't talk about the Kalis issue because I don't know. I don't know him. I am not familiar with the issue or why it turned out like it did. That's the difference between myself and your vocal majority on here. Even saying that, I did give you a name and contact for that group to see why they fast-tracked it. But, I'm sure no one called or talked to anyone in District Four. You have already drawn your conclusion and facts be damned, even if those conversation support what you already suppose.
my response;
I filed a complaint with DSI Eric. Nothing came of it. I emailed Kessler directly, nothing came of it. I'm sure I will have to testify in court concerning this issue. The conculsions we have drawn from this issue are obvious! There is a double standard in housing. If you are an employee of the city or affiliated like Dave Thune, you will be treated differently.
Until KESSLER has the guts to clear up some of this stuff this will be our belief!
Eric said;
That's actually the MO of this blog. Shoot first, shoot again, don't ever ask questions.
my response;
I agree, many of the topics are shot first. However, we usaully get to the truth one way or another. You know this. So you aren't quite being honest on this one Eric. Some will stick to their guns but, the truth is here for all to see.
Eric said;
Some of these anonymous people on here would be dangerous if you had a clue. You don't so I find you entertaining.
my response;
You aren't educating me. I know some of the folks who post here are goofy. Have you read twincities.com lately? This blog is an icon of civility in comparsion. and I too find the blog entertaining. :-)
Eric said;
Bob, its disappointing to see you in this.
my response;
I don't have an apology for having an opinion concerning the way the city is dealing with the vacant housing crisis.
I will give you this Eric. I was thinking of our friend Chuck when I was responding to you. :-) I think I know you real well after almost 3 years of exchanges.
Fair point I'll give you is that you do have me figured on some things. You, not most. I'm still a little wiley.
I agree there is some very good non-profits. On the other hand there is a few here in Saint Paul who stand in line to take advantage of the housing crisis stock,some real DIRTY BIRDS in that bunch. Kind of folks who would let children and homeless people stripe asbestos siding off a house.
Who does? Probably on those who benefit. If only the good landlords who know who these people are would have spoken up before they sued everyone, then maybe they would have credibility on their interest of the poor.
It isn't a dirty word Eric, however, it isn't something the majority of Americans gravitate too. Only in your circles is this prevalent.
Actually its Republicans and neo-cons who use this word. My side believes that in the richest country in the history of civilization, we should be able to help those that need it. The cons believe that any help from the government is a handout unless its them that was helped (ie Pawlenty getting low interest school loans and attending a cheap high quality public university but, forgets that others would appreciate a cheap high quality education).
First of all Eric, I DO NOT shop WALMART. Garbage product of dollar store quality. They treat you like a criminal when leaving Walmart, searching bags and checking receipts. I maintain my dignity and shop at Target. I was sold on NAFTA. Not anymore! I happen to agree with Barney Frank on this one.
Best thing I've read on here in a long time. I don't even think about shopping Wal Mart.
I filed a complaint with DSI Eric. Nothing came of it. I emailed Kessler directly, nothing came of it. I'm sure I will have to testify in court concerning this issue. The conculsions we have drawn from this issue are obvious! There is a double standard in housing. If you are an employee of the city or affiliated like Dave Thune, you will be treated differently.
Good start. I will take exception that Thune gets some kind of different treatment. He has been cited himself.
Gotta run to a meeting. I'll catch your response later, until then,
До свидания мой друг.
Eric
Bob - the houses that are being demo'ed are flat out not carpet and paint fix up projects and please give me some addresses if you think that they are.
Pull up the reports on these things. NO COPPER PIPES in the entire building! Damn near every window broken. Not occupied for 2-3-5 years! These are houses that are on the market for LESS than what the lot is worth.
I go through these buildings every week. You have realtor friends get them to open up a few of them for you. See what these things look like. They aren't going to sell for years if the City doesn't take them out. There is one on the East Side that is listed for $17,000.00 that would be a "handy man's" dream I am sure.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Handyman dream, only $17000.
Only a handyman can't fix it Chuck. A licensed contractor has to do the work.
10:46 AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
You guys don't get it!
For $17,000 it is garbage!
It should be demo'ed!
WE should expect the City to get rid of the piece of crap and never let any jerk patch it back together with duck tape and superglue!
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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