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Monday, December 11, 2006

Griffin Garden Row House Project

Please click onto the title of this post for a link to a story on a condo project in Saint Paul.

posted by Bob at Monday, December 11, 2006

1 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Posted 09 Dec 2006 12:27 by Charlie Swope

The city is being asked for a substantial subsidy for
the Griffin Townhomes project. The developers are
asking for $630,000 or $125,000 per unit from the
city. And, mind you, this is not an affordable housing
project. The units are expected to be priced at
$300,000.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/16199890.htm

If the city is handing out money like this, tell me
where is the line forming?top

***Posted 09 Dec 2006 23:43 by Bob Spaulding

To satisfy my own curiosity on Griffin and a project comparison in
general, I put together a little comparison using the info easily at
my disposal.


QUICK STATS
==============

% OF PROJECT COSTS SUBSIDIZED:
Lowry: 6.4%
Penfield: 7.3%
WestSide Flats: ~9.3%
Griffin, as proposed: more than 29.6%

SUBSIDY PER UNIT:
Lowry: $18,333
Penfield: $30,573
WestSide Flats: ~$50,000
Griffin, as proposed: $126,000


PROJECT PROFILES
================

LOWRY CONDOS (http://www.thelowrybldg.com)
Downtown, 5th & St. Peter
Units start at $106,000
Total housing units: 120
Total Subsidy: $2.2 million forgivable loan
Total project cost: $34 million in renovation
Agreed-upon community benefits: reuses historic building, converts
office to residential, sharing of excess profit with City.
SUBSIDY PER UNIT: $18,333
% OF TOTAL PROJECT COST: 6.4%

THE PENFIELD (http://www.thepenfield.com)
Downtown, 11th & Robert
Units start at: $159,000
Total housing units: 314
Total Subsidy: $9.6 million TIF
Green Building: Built to LEED (Green) Certification Standards
Agreed-upon community benefits: Among first major residential
projects built to LEED environmental standards, saves historic
structure with Cap Wigington involvement, centerpiece of neighborhood
plan, very responsive to community, minority contractors, first major
residential green roof in City.
Total project cost: $131 million
SUBSIDY PER UNIT: $30,573
% OF TOTAL PROJECT COST: 7.3%

WESTSIDE FLATS (http://www.westsideflats.com)
West Side Flats, Wabasha at Mississippi River
Units start at: $250,000
Total housing units: 120
Total Subsidy: roughly $6 million, mostly in TIF (more exact figures
unavailable)
Green Building: No
Agreed-upon community benefits: first new residential on West Side
Flats, central to neighborhood plan, riverfront planning, site clean-
up, green space.
SUBSIDY PER UNIT $50,000
% OF TOTAL PROJECT COST: 9.3%

GRIFFIN TOWNHOMES
Midway, St. Anthony just west of Snelling
Units start at: $300,000
Total housing units: 5
Total Subsidy: $630,000, most or all in direct subsidy
Total Project cost: less than total sales price of $2.125 million, if
developer is to make any money
Green Building: Yes
Agreed-upon Community Benefits: minority developers, I assume is
built to LEED environmental standards
SUBSIDY PER UNIT: $126,000
% OF TOTAL PROJECT COST: More than 29.6%show remainder of emailtop

Posted 09 Dec 2006 23:54 by Bob Spaulding

I forgot to list one project benefit in my last post...here's the
corrected version.

To satisfy my own curiosity on Griffin and a project comparison in
general, I put together a little comparison using the info easily at
my disposal.


QUICK STATS
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

% OF PROJECT COSTS SUBSIDIZED:
Lowry: 6.4%
Penfield: 7.3%
WestSide Flats: ~9.3%
Griffin, as proposed: more than 29.6%

SUBSIDY PER UNIT:
Lowry: $18,333
Penfield: $30,573
WestSide Flats: ~$50,000
Griffin, as proposed: $126,000


PROJECT PROFILES
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

LOWRY CONDOS (http://www.thelowrybldg.com)
Downtown, 5th & St. Peter
Units start at $106,000
Total housing units: 120
Total Subsidy: $2.2 million forgivable loan
Total project cost: $34 million in renovation
Agreed-upon community benefits: reuses historic building, converts
office to residential, sharing of excess profit with City.
SUBSIDY PER UNIT: $18,333
% OF TOTAL PROJECT COST: 6.4%

THE PENFIELD (http://www.thepenfield.com)
Downtown, 11th & Robert
Units start at: $159,000
Total housing units: 314
Total Subsidy: $9.6 million TIF
Green Building: Built to LEED (Green) Certification Standards
Agreed-upon community benefits: Among first major residential
projects built to LEED environmental standards, saves historic
structure with Cap Wigington involvement, centerpiece of neighborhood
plan, very responsive to community, minority contractors, first major
residential green roof in City.
Total project cost: $131 million
SUBSIDY PER UNIT: $30,573
% OF TOTAL PROJECT COST: 7.3%

WESTSIDE FLATS (http://www.westsideflats.com)
West Side Flats, Wabasha at Mississippi River
Units start at: $250,000
Total housing units: 120
Total Subsidy: roughly $6 million, mostly in TIF (more exact figures
unavailable)
Green Building: I don't think so
Agreed-upon community benefits: first new residential on West Side
Flats, central to neighborhood plan, riverfront planning, site clean-
up, green space, contributes small percentage of TIF to citywide
affordable housing fund.
SUBSIDY PER UNIT $50,000
% OF TOTAL PROJECT COST: 9.3%

GRIFFIN TOWNHOMES
Midway, St. Anthony just west of Snelling
Units start at: $300,000
Total housing units: 5
Total Subsidy: $630,000, most or all in direct subsidy
Total Project cost: less than total sales price of $2.125 million, if
developer is to make any money
Green Building: Probably built to LEED
Agreed-upon Community Benefits: minority developers, I assume is
built to LEED environmental standards
SUBSIDY PER UNIT: $126,000
% OF TOTAL PROJECT COST: More than 29.6%show remainder of emailtop

***Posted 10 Dec 2006 13:25 by Jay Wilkinson

This is not a wise use of resources. Esp. if one of the owners is to live in
one of the units.

I want St. Paul and Minnesota to support diverse business development, but
any developer who needs this level of support for a market rate development
is bound to fail. I hope that these entrepeneurs can rethink their efforts,
find established partners (for example Legacy Development is run by African
Americans, Shingobee Builders by Anishinabe (if memory serves) and I hope
that there are others), and come back to the city with a better plan. I also
urge St Paul, if not already part of its reveiw of WMBE contracting, to look to
extending the expectations for diversity to those who seek city subsidies.

Also, see "Changing the Face of Housing in Minnesota" and the report
"Everyone's work, Everyone's Reward" for a thoughtful institution-focused
approach to making the housing and housing service industries reflect our
diverse communities.top

***Posted 11 Dec 2006 09:25 by Russ Stark

While nothing in Bob's analysis is untrue to my knowledge, there is a lot
that he and others are unaware of with regard to the Griffin Townhomes Project.
Tops on this list is the degree of environmental benefits of the project.
At least as intended and originally designed, my understanding is that the
Griffn Townhomes project would have far exceeded the requirements of LEED
Certification. These units were designed to be ENERGY NEUTRAL, meaning that
between energy efficiency and solar panels, on average they would not have
required any energy use from the power grid whatsoever.

If the developers were able to achieve this, the value of such a
demonstration project to the City and the community is difficult to measure.
Obviously there are some financial barriers to building a project this green
and be able to sell the units at markets rates at that location.

But someday soon one of the project designs of James Garrett and his partners
is going to be built and it will have a huge ripple effect throughout the
development industry. I hope St. Paul finds a way to be the first to build one
of these projects, and capture our home-grown talent.

Russ Stark
Hamline Midwaytop

***Posted 11 Dec 2006 16:47 by Mike Fratto

Russ your statements may be correct. But please tell me why there should be
a public
subsidy of approximately 50% to build these units? To my understanding of
construction
costs versus selling price, this means the developers are going to pay for
the building
of these units with public money. So almost the entire sales price will be
clear profit
for the developers.

So tell me again why public money should go into this project? If this project
is so
worthwhile, why wouldn't the city build the units themeselves and reap the
profit
themselves? One reason is they aren't in that business.

If the project is as engery neutral as stated the there should be good demand
for the
units. So tell me again why the city chould put public money into the project?



--- Russ Stark russellstark23 ( at ) yahoo.com> wrote:


While nothing in Bob's analysis is untrue to my knowledge, there is a lot
that he and
others are unaware of with regard to the Griffin Townhomes Project. Tops
on this list
is the degree of environmental benefits of the project. At least as intended
and
originally designed, my understanding is that the Griffn Townhomes project
would have
far exceeded the requirements of LEED Certification. These units were
designed to be
ENERGY NEUTRAL, meaning that between energy efficiency and solar panels, on
average
they would not have required any energy use from the power grid whatsoever.

If the developers were able to achieve this, the value of such a
demonstration project to the City and the community is difficult to measure. Obviously there are
some
financial barriers to building a project this green and be able to sell the
units at
markets rates at that location.

But someday soon one of the project designs of James Garrett and his partners
is going
to be built and it will have a huge ripple effect throughout the
development industry. I hope St. Paul finds a way to be the first to build one of these projects,
and capture our home-grown talent.

Russ Stark
Hamline Midway

Mike Fratto
East Side

9:34 PM  

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