SAINT PAUL/ Inefficient snow plowing continues.
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posted by Bob at Monday, December 27, 2010
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Monday, December 27, 2010
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59 Comments:
Looks like another snow emergency joke played in St.Paul.
On saturday early afternoon, the snow emergency hotline recording stated that due to not enough taggers and towers, no plowing would be done.
Then, later after folks were already at grandmas hosue, they call a snow emergency when people are caight off guard.
Merry Christmas to you too Mr.Mayor.
1:35 PM
Anonymous said...
Oh, the snow plow orders say that the snow emergency will be in effect until streets are plowed
" Full width to the curb " .
I haven't seen the curb all winter.
8:17 PM
Anonymous said...
Bob, I request a posting on this snow job emergency.
I called the hot line early christmas day and the hot line says
' there is No Snow emergency due to the fact that the city could not get enough taggers and toweres let alone plows and that the city police and fire said that the streets were passible '
So, how the hell does the city come up all of the sudden with enough taggers and towers by 9:00 p.m. the same day ??????????????
Even the news outlets did not make reference to the messages that St.Paul left on it's hot line declaring No Snow emergency.
I will be informing them of this fraud perpetrated by the city to raise money.
This is serious shit.
11:20 PM
Anonymous said...
Folks, I called street maintinance at 266-9700 and the man admitted that what was done was not fair and he admitted that a no snow emergency was called earlier in the day and when asked how it was that the city could say they didn't have taggers and tow drivers to plow the roads, he then stated well we were just able to call it at 9:00 p.m. which if thats true, there would have been NO time at all afforded to move cars and scramble for alternative parking.
This was done intentionally and with mischief and greed !!!!!!
I call for the Mayor and Street Maintenance Supervisor to come clean to the public and issue refunds and apology !!!!
How about someone losing their job !!!
1:28 AM
Anonymous said...
And I don't want to hear no shit coming out of Chucks ass on this one !!! Your buddys are busted !!!
1:30 AM
The public worker takes more breaks and do no plow when drivng
down the streets. I was told by of those plow driver. All that have to do is drive around and get pay. They do not care about the people of st.paul. Because they all live in the burbs. He said union told them to act that are doing thier work. people in the office of public works. Do not care about the streets getting plowed. they get paid no matter that streets are plowed. Just like news watches them takes long breaks fill pot holes. nothing change in public work.
The mayor does not have balls to fire all the lazy work. Because kathy L back the union, and keep giving them pay raise and good med.
The city should cut thier pay and med.. A snow emergency is joke. Drive just plow little and take nap for 8-10 hours
Hi All,
Under Coleman the street plowing has been about as bad as it can get.
It is all to obvious why the streets are poorly maintained. The city has a budget and equipment for light snow. WHY, because we really haven't experienced heavy snow in years.
NOW, that we are experiencing a Minnesota winter unlike any we have had in years the city isn't prepared to deal with it.
Proper, Prior, Planning, Prevents, Piss, Poor, Procedures.
The city should get it's priorities straight. Spend less on things we don't need like poems embedded in sidewalks and bike trails etc. .
9:15;
I can't help but ponder maybe some paybacks are being undertaken by some street maintenance workers over the exposure of lazy crews last spring.
Street maintenance is a political hot potatoes that can make or break a mayor and city council.
St. Paul had declared a snow emergency, just a few days late.
Don't you love how St. Paul is run?
They are sounding off over at SPIF.
I just had to drag this over from the bowels of SPIF.
Dianne, John is right on about this subject and you personally attacked him. The week before last Rick Mons made a personal attack at the E-Democracy Minnesota politics forum. Nothing new from the insiders of E-Democracy. Unchecked blissful hypocrisy!
I see Mike Fratto is over there kissing city halls ass too. If the mayor and city council shit their pants in public Fratto and friends would be right there wiping their ass and claiming it was all a mistake that benefits the community.
From: Diane Gerth Date: 02:51 UTC
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The operative language here is: "if you want MORE service, then we have to pay
for it."
Actually, the operative language ought to be: "if you want MORE service, then
YOU have to pay for it."
When has Mr. Krenik ever advocated paying more taxes for anything? When has he
stepped up and called for everyone paying even pennies more so that the city we
live in can function a bit more smoothly? I can't recall it, but I might be
wrong. I welcome being shown when he's done so.
He sounds like one of those crabby old men who'd rather Public Works employees
cater to his crankiness than do their jobs of coordinating the difficult work
of clearing the snow. He's fishing for reasons to complain, and by golly he
found one.
Diane Gerth
West End and Downtown
From: John Krenik Date: 03:46 UTC
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Diane,
I was wondering when someone would bring up the topic of paying more taxes as a
solution to all of our problems.
To be correct your words were, "When has Mr. Krenik ever advocated paying more
taxes for anything?"
In past posts about the city budget I have stated this very simply, basics
FIRST. These include public safety (BOTH police and fire), public works and
job creation. The elimination of unnecessary jobs in the Mayor's office would
be a good start. This idea that we don't want to support government is a
fallacy of some left leaning progressives, but using our resources to the
fullest, while eliminating unnecessary and at times duplicated services is the
key.
Doing the same old thing year after year may just because that is the way it
has been done may sound good to you, but respecting the hardworking taxpayer's
money and shaping government to form a more efficient model of government is
just what the nation decided on in the last national election.
Diane we still live in a democratic society in St. Paul, not a socialist
society, at least not yet. This expectation that the taxpayer's have an
endless supply of money to supply to government or taxpayers don't want to
support government is FALSE. People see a value in our government, but they
are tired of the same old BS.
Cutting waste, eliminating "government is your mother" programs and
concentrating on the basic needs is always what I have stated. Working with
the unions to provide the best possible services is the key.
Now back to the topic at hand, to have the snow plowed six feet away from the
curb is a public safety issue, when cars are parked on both sides of the street
the busses or large trucks have to wait until a car passes to continue on.
This is a major roadway in St. Paul. Have you seen the side streets? Having
roads that are so unsafe that the school district has to cancel classes for a
second day in a row is an indication that the system is broken. Having roads
that are impassible on the East Side where the US Postal Service tells
customers to pick up their mail from the post office as there will be no home
delivery because of the roads are impassible is also a indication the system is
broken.
So Diane, answer this, what about all that money that was set-aside in past
years budgets when we didn't have as much snow? Where did that money go?
Refrigerated ice rinks?
It is not a case of not having enough money to run the city, it is a case of
poor government leadership in our city and how the money was spent. Your
frustration needs to go to your elected leaders and not the poor taxpayers who
are breaking their backs to support an inefficient government that is not
respectful or thankful for the money the taxpayers provide their government to
operate.
Sincerely,
John Krenik
St. Paul, Minnesota
"He sounds like one of those crabby old men who'd rather Public Works employees
cater to his crankiness than do their jobs of coordinating the difficult work
of clearing the snow. He's fishing for reasons to complain, and by golly he
found one."
Who has to fish for reasons to complain Diane. In Saint Paul the fish jump in the boat.
I have good news for any person towed in during this snow emergency.
Minnesota Statute 169.041 permits any person who's car was towed in violation of snow emergency towing authorization can be paid " The greater of $ 100.00 or two times the actual damages sustained as a result of the violation "
So, if your car was towed in violation of normal procedures, the legislature gives you the right to sue for damages.
Line up every buddy !!!!!! It's Christmas at the Courthouse and it's time for Scrooge to pay up !!!!
I am always here to help ;)
Jeff Matiatos
Oh, go and get a lawyer too, the courts will make them pay attorneys fees too. Thats going to be pretty spendy !!!!
You guys are really laughable.
There was no freaking way that they were going to call a snow emergency on Christmas Eve... it just wasn't going to happen. Remember you have all sorts of people moving about on those two days parking in areas they are not familiar with... there is no way they were going to plow then.
So, they hold off until 9:00 PM after every freaking thing imaginable that is going to officially happen about Christmas is done... so that they don't screw up the parking for any church in town, and then you clowns complain about that..
Think for just one second you morons. If they would have called a snow emergency when the snow stopped on Friday morning, that means the plows would have started at 9 PM on Christmas Eve. That means all of those people going to Midnight mass services would have had their cars on the street getting tagged and towed. And then they would have been plowing the day routes on Christmas Day, so all of those cars that are parked in front of Grandma's house on all of the side streets would have been tagged or towed.
How many of you were still sitting at Grandma's at 9:00 PM on Christmas Day?
So, they did the right thing.
The thing to make it easiest on people to deal with cars on the holiday and this crowd has its undies in a bunch.
What a bunch of dolts.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck, the cities excuse was that they didn't have the man power to get the snow plowed and the recording on the snow plow information phone line did not state that it would be possible for a snow emergency to be declared later on Christmas day or evening. You didn't call the info line like I did.
Also, the message said that the police and fire chiefs reported that the inner streets were passible for them and that main roads were being plowed.
You have it All wrong so watch who you are calling dolts. You are the idiot .
They just didn't hold off til 9:00 p.m., they called the emergency at 9:00 p.m. after everybody was led to believe a snow emergency WOULDN'T be called at all.
Get your facts straight and stop kissing up.
Jeff Matiatos
Thanks Jeff, I will call my attorney.
No, you twit, they did not call the snow emergency at 9:00 PM they called it before 4:00 PM on Saturday... because when we got back to the house at 4PM there was already a message on our phone from the City EMS system saying that plowing would happen at 9 PM.
Do you people know that you can sign up to have the City call you when they declare snow emergencies? Its a service that you can get if you live in Saint Paul.
So, all of you crazy want-to-be lawyers, the City did exactly what it always does. The fact that they at one time didn't declare an emergency and had some kind of a message saying there wasn't one, doesn't mean that they can't ever declare a snow emergency later on in the same freaking day.
They didn't lead people on to believe anything. If you own a phone they will call you. If you listened to the news at 5 or 6 or 10 - it was on the news.
Clowns...
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck, your making up what seems to be logical excuses.
Oh, so they leave a message early in the afternoon saying No Snow Emergency because there are not enough taggers and tow crews, and withing 3-4 hours they suddenly have enough manpower ?
I suppose on this holiday everyone is supposed to sit around and wait for the dam city to make up it's mind !!!
I think that possibly, the city was told by it's legal people that they were risking huge liabilitys for not responding to the snow emergency as they should have and cearly they did not do so.
The city was indecisive to say the least and by 4:00 p.m. the time you say, folks were already enjoying themselves believing that the city had already declared a No Snow Emergency.
I call for any attorney to represent a victim who got towed, to file a class action suit against the city on this one.
If procedures were not followed to the letter regarding notification, the city will be held liable under the statute I cited plain and simple.
Jeff Matiatos
Where the city screws up is by issuing a " No Snow Emergency " when in fact there was one.
This is not what the city is supposed to do and this is the defence to the tow and grounds for court intervention.
Any court of law will question the actions of the city works department by misleading the citizens in St.Paul even if it was negligent.
Jeff Matiatos
Also, I find it very suspicious that the city declares that they don't have enough man power, but suddenly they do ? Aftewr all, they were able to tow 900 ? Seems like enough manpower to me. Looks like a scam was run here.
Jeff Matiatos
Again, the Minnesota Statute for towing relief for victims is 169.041 if you believe you were the victim of an questionable and or unlawful tow.
At 11:27 a.m. on Dec 25, I had an email notification from the City of St Paul declaring the snow emergency plowing to take place at 9pm that same evening. My husband received 3 computer calls on his phone and I received 1 call on mine between 3:00 and 5:00 pm from the city stating the same thing. So we were notified 5 times in all. I was surprised as normally we just get the email notification. I think the city went way beyond what they usually do to get us the message.(Not sure if everyone else got theirs) I doubt that the streets will ever be plowed to the curb. Not sure that's even possible at this point. The fact of the matter is that the streets were a mess and many people were complaining about it and something needed to be done so people could travel to work and school safely on Monday morning.
Maybe the charge of the tow should be regulated to a much cheaper amount during snow emergency. Why should those tow companies be making out the way they do during a snow emergency!
I'm sick and tired of those slackers who won't move their vehicles during a snow emergency, and don't get towed. After they get plowed in on one side of the street, they shovel out just enough to get out and then park on the clean side of the street and don't move during the next snow emergency and the mess starts all over again. I don't even live in St Paul. I own rental property there and am sick and tired of not having anywhere to park when I go out there to do the snow removal that is required for my properties because some lazy neighbor couldn't get their ### out there to move their vehicle when the plow came through. Also, the city has done a crappy job of plowing this year. It's like a repeat of last year but with more snow.
The city should pay people to tow their cars, or at least give them a 'Get Out of Inspections Citations Free' card.
7:18,
Nice try at damage control but thats not really the way it played out.
The public works snow hotline claimed a " No Snow Emergency " early to mid afternoon on Dec. 25
due to not enough taggers and tow people.
Then after all of us went to grandmas house for christmas, a miracle happened where the city got in enough taggers and towers to declare a snow emergency and pull the rug out from all of St.Paul.
Fact is, after the snow fall stopped of 3 inches or more, a snow emergency must be called, that is the rule.
This was not done, mistake number
1.
Mistake number two was calling a No snow emergency when in fact there was a snow emergency then calling one after they had called it off. This is irregular procedure whether or not you got an e-mail or phone call.
The city has an obligation and duty to warn evveryone even those in the city that do not get alerts vis e-mail or phone call.
Those that don't get alerts rely on the correct procedure that says that AFTER 3 inches or more of snow, a snow emergency goes into affect.
But nice try at damagew control but it won't work.
Jeff Matiatos
What it sounds like, was issuing a snow emergency that was to the appeasement of public works snow removal people and taggers and towers.
The city pays it's public works people overtime to work holidays and instead, they opted to not call a snow emergency when they should have.
There is an agreement that snow plowers and taggers and towers will do snow emergencys on holidays ?
It would contravene the importance of public safety to not have such an agreement. The failure to have and enforce one rests with the mayor and supervisor for Public Works.
Chuck, be honest, this particular snow emergency was half baked.
Jeff Matiatos
10:24 PM,
Thanks Jeff, I will ask Dave Thune how to reply to your comment and get back to you.
Thanks,
Chuck
Link "joe"
First off I didn't post the 4:02 comment, so Bob please remove.
Second Jeff, you and maybe two or three other people take it that once the City has left a message on its voice mail that the City does not have a snow emergency, that it can never ever in our life time declare a snow emergency.
That sir is the most insane thinking process I have ever seen posted here. The City calls snow emergencies, it doesn't call a "No snow emergency." Where in the hell did you get that?
Since people call in, the City left a recording that the City has not declared a snow emergency and that the roads are passable. Once they decided for what ever reason that they needed to call one, it gave all of the normal warnings that it always does. One person posted here getting it at 11:27 AM on Xmas that they were plowing 12 and 1/2 hours later. (not at 9pm for a 9pm plow like you said)
So, if someone called in at 9 AM and heard there wasn't one, (and 12 1/2 hours isn't enough) how many days does the City have to wait before they declare one? A week? A month? Can we have one next year? I am sorry, they left a message back on 12/24/10 that there wasn't one, so its been 5 years that message still holds...
That kind of thinking is crazy.
As soon as the snow fell, I said to my better half that they weren't going to declare a snow emergency on Xmas eve... the public would go crazy unless it was a blizzard.... and they didn't.
They did the most logical, best for the public and most cost effective timing of the plowing... but here its a government conspiracy to get the permanently stupid.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Jeff,
Can you find me that "rule" that if there has been 3 inches of snow in Saint Paul a snow emergency goes into effect?
Its like being in the twilight zone here.
There is an alternative reality...
In Jeff's world public works must call snow emergencies when there has been 3 inches of snow, because there is a "rule," and on sunny days in June, it calls "No Snow Emergency Days."
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck, call the public works department and ask them to read you the message they played on christmas day saying that no snow emergency would be called due to not enough taggers and tow crews.
Chuck said :
" Can you find me that "rule" that if there has been three inches of snow in St.Paul a snow emergency goes into effect " ?
" St.Paul declares a snow emergency after 3 inches or more "
Now the above quote is from the snow emergency plow hot line at
266-plow. Call it and listen and then you will know the rule.
Chuck, your up to your spinning again. I am willing to wager any amount of money against you that you lose this arguement.
Someone else please call 266-plow and then post here that Chuck was wrong. He needs ours and your support.
Jeff Matiatos
" By 5p.m. Sunday, St.Paul had issued 3,426 tickets and towed 927 vehicles " ( Star tribune )
Now does that sound right Chuck after the message to St.Paul citizens was to NOT DECLARE A SNOW EMERGENCY due to not enough taggers and towers ?????? and then declare one after everyone was packed in at grandmas house and chatting up with family not knowing that St.Paul Public Works was about to do a 360 and call one after the fact ?? What a dirty trick !!!!
You just don't get it man.
Read the paper and call Public Works to get the truth and stop talking out your ass !
Again, for all those St.paul citizens and people out of town that came to this scam of a city to be towed unlawfully, please refer to Minnesota Statute 169.041 and sue for your money back and twice the damages.
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff you should not be allowed to use the telephone. If you call 266-plow you will hear that there isn't a snow emergency today either ("at this time")... and the message will stay that way until they decide to have one!
It then says "The following is general information..." it is designed to help those with even a teaspoon of brains understand how the system works, to give you an idea of what may occur... "general information." Your rule is general information, not a rule. It also doesn't say how fast AFTER that 3 inches it plows, because it also says once the accumulation reaches that level... general information.
God man do you need help.
And, then one other thing... as to your trip to Grandma's. All snow emergencies start with the evening plow. They haven't started with a day plow in better than 20 years... so if you were concerned about the snow why would checking in the morning be at all useful to you and why wouldn't you check in the evening?
Again, typing as slowly as possible so that you will get it... The City of Saint Paul has never in its history declared a day "Not a Snow Emergency" but on somewhere around 360 days a year it has not declared one at this time.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
How many tow trucks were used to tow 927 vehicles ? Sure seems like they had a shortage of tow drivers to me HaHaHaHa!!!!!
Definition of General Rule means :
" The customary or normal circumstance or procedure "
Now what do you suppose that means Chuck ?
DuH DuH !!!
Jeff Matiatos
... you shouldn't even be allowed a dictionary...
Where did you see that it meant it was a requirement in the dictionary? DUHH
Where is the ordinance that says that Public Works must plow when there is 3 inches? DUH
Your bazar conspiracy theories asside, the City loses money when it declares snow emergencies, the largest part of the cost of towing goes to the private vendor that does the towing, 927 towes are not enough... and not enough trucks.
The City gave the normal notice for plowing, any earlier explination on a voice messaging system explaining why they had not yet called a snow emergency doesn't stop the City from calling one.
And, finally if you leave town in the winter in Minnesota and leave your car on the street, I don't want it just towed... I want it towed to the scrap yard and crushed.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Because Chuck, when the city gets sued for this and that, a court of law will have to determine the conduct of both sides when there is a prayer for relief.
The court examines the policys and procedures used and the discretionary extent of a municipal action.
So, what the city tells people is certainly relevant.
If just one citizen sues public works alleging their car was wrongfully towed, a Judge or a jury will determine whether the towing authority followed it's policys and general rules in relation to how it informed the public of it's actions to justify the action it took when it towed 927 cars.
The city does not lose money when it declares snow emergencys that it has budgeted for unless more emergencys are called than budgeted for. Tell the whole truth not half.
The city did not give normal notice because putting out a statement to the public that there would be NO plowing, tagging and towing right after we had more than three inches of snow was wrong to say period !!!
It was the first thing they told us then they changed their minds after some miracle suddenley caused taggers and towers to show up for work ???
Hmmmm looks fishy to me. Ask 927 folks at the impound lot if they believe your story Chuck, they will tear you apart limb to limb.
Jeff Matiatos
You are so laughable...
Where exactly did you go to law school Jeff?
There is no assurance given that one will not be declared, by stating that at the moment one has not been declared.
The City didn't just give notice, it gave more notice than it normally gives, if as someone said it declared a snow emergency before noon. Thousands of people got emails, thousands of people got phone calls all of the news stations reported it.
You have no case, just more silliness...
My hope is that all of you pretend attorneys have to pay court costs for nuisance suits and that the City gets attorneys fees. That is what would stick a fork in your little clown games.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
The city wouldn't be getting this kind of screuteny if they had acted responsebly on the housing issues. With their sleazy operations, St Paul is now a house of cards and they will have to pay and pay and pay.
Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to decieve.
Chuck, maybe you could tell that to Thune.
Thousands of people may have gotten e-mails and phone calls while on the road to grandmas house. The city gave them a false sence of security by stating earlier, that no tagging and towing would be happening in the first message to St.Paul citizens after the snow stopped.
Then after came the official change of mind by the city to actually start tagging and towing. Unfortunatley, while thousands may have been lucky, 927 misinformed and dupped citizens ended up at the impound lot.
This was a money maker in citations and towing revenue. How is that a loss for the city Chuck you numskull.
Jeff Matiatos
See Minnesota Statute 169.041 for towing relief.
Thank You.
You said Chuck :
" The city loses money when it declares snow emergencies "
Myth
Fact :
If the city doesn't issue citations, then one could honestly say that the city didn't make a dime, but 3'426 citations add up to how much money Chuck ?
Jeff Matiatos
All folks have to do is take their parking tickets down to the appeals office at the courthouse and say you want to plead not guilty and ask for a judge to hear your case. Use Minnesota Statute 169.041 as your base of appeal and state your defence. Bringing a lawyer would be very helpful.
The city has engaged in predatory towing against the city of St.Paul citizens in the past.
Lets stop this predatory towing and theft of citizens cars NOW !!!
Chuck,
Just a reminder, you don't work for the city anymore.
Stop kissing up. You got Thune in your pocket. My guess is you have some deal going on with the city and you need to kiss up.
Jeff
Just because you say a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. The City never said that it would not be calling a snow emergency for the next 24 hours, 48 hours, 2 minutes.
Any time you call the plow number it gives you the current status. That is all and that is all you can depend on.
Please take your tickets to court all of you and watch what the judge does to you.
7:38 I don't know why I bother to keep posting to this site to try and straighten these mad men, but there is something about one place with so much bad information that facinates me. I have never seen one place where people could be so wrong so often.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck would have us believe that we are supposed to be calling in to the plow hotline every 5 minutes just in case the department of public works fellows are through eating their lunch.
It's a fact that before the city called a snow emergency, they called a no plow, no taggers, no towing PERIOD !!!!
Then, while all of St.Paul were caught off guard, the city pulled a fast one and called a snow emergency while St.Paul citizens and out of town guests were trying to enjoy a magor holiday.
The city had this bullshit excuse that there were not enough taggers and towers to call a snow emergency. ( Unheard of in St.Paul history folks until this year ) !!!
Then, a miracle happened where out of the blue, all these tow truck guys and taggers suddenly appeared out of the blue what a joke !!!!
That is the big lie Chuck.
I repeat for the 10th time and appeal to at least one out of 927 victims to take this issue to the hill and do a class action !!!
Minnesota Statute 169.041
Thanks again.
Jeff Matiatos
Jeffs got ol Chucky boy on his heals and Chuck is feeling the heat OUCH OUCH !
Would be interesting if all 927 victims appealed and the city had to write 927 reports pursuant to statute.
I see Chuck threw in the towel ? I saw that coming. Your beat Chuck.
You know what this is Jeff?
"It's a fact that before the city called a snow emergency, they called a no plow, no taggers, no towing PERIOD !!!!"
Its a lie.
You can say a lie over and over again but it doesn't make it the truth.
The City doesn't call a "No Plow Day" It never has and it never will.
In your fantasy land it might do that... and in you fantasy land you might be a lawyer... and in your fantasy land you might even be important...
but it doesn't change the facts.
The City called a normal snow emergency at the normal time in the normal way. What ever message that was on the machine explaining why they had not declared a snow emergency before they decided to declare a new one is meaningless.
That message offered no assurance as to how long there would not be a snow emergency and you would have to be a complete idiot to think that it did.
Check the message now. It says there isn't a snow emergency. How long is that good for? A day? A week? A month?
I'll tell you how long....
...until they change the recording.
Its a service not a warranty for life.
If they decided at noon today that they wanted to do a clean up and declared a snow emergency for 9 PM tonight, they can do it... its legal... and there is a message on the machine right now saying we don't have a snow emergency... but it might change at noon.
Sorry, Jeff you aren't particularly good with some pretty simple logic. And, making up things does not win an argument or a court case.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
The way to prove this out is for Jeff to put his ass on the line and file a suit.
Jeff, file a suit. Stop talking about it and just prove that it can be done.
Eric
Chuck, you spun that again for the 20th time.
The message we all heard on the plow information line was in fact a statement telling us that despite the 3-5 inches of snow that fell, the city was NOT going to tag,tow or plow the streets.
This was the first statement they made to the public and it was wrong and the employee at public works admitted it was wrong so your in no position to override what he said.
This statement of the public works department goes against the rule for when the city says it WILL call a snow emergency.
The city was wrong for making the statement period.
If this statement threw off any citizen that had their car towed, then there will be recourse under the law.
I am much more experienced in the law than you are Chuck.
You would not be very good at giving a closing statement to a jury.
If the law says the sky is blue Chuck, you cannot convince a jury the sky is red but low and behold, Chuck will try to convince the jury that it is.
Thank God for jury instructions !!!
Jeff Matiatos
Eric, I would be more than happy to bring a suit for recourse under these circumstances however, I lack standing in court to bring an action if I was not a victim of this particular issue .
A court must determine by the allegations of fact or other affidavits whether a litigant has standing to bring an action.
A litigant must have an injury in fact, actual and concrete, not hypothetical in nature and their must be a prospect of recieving a favorable result that is not too speculative.
But I feel I'am doing right by telling any readers here that were affected, what I know the common knowledge of law to be, the circumstances I know of and that standing up for their rights under these circumstances is the best thing they can do and to fight this dirty deed by the predatory towing that occured over the christmas hoilday.
Jeff Matiatos
However, it may be possible for me to intervene by whats called being a " Friend of the Court ".
A friend of the court may be anyperson who volunteers to offer information to assist the court in deciding a case in the form of a legal opinion, testimonial on a matter that bears relevance in the case.
It is within the courts sole discretion whether to admit the information.
Jeff Matiatos
Jeff,
Try this again, did it say on that recording that the City would not be plowing snow from 12/23/10 through 12/26/10?
Or did it say; the City of Saint Paul has not declared a snow emergency, due to not enough tower and taggers and the roads being passable we have not declared a snow emergency in Saint Paul?
Because if it said that it was not going to call a snow emergency that week end you would have a case, but if what was on the recorder more matches what I am guessing it said in the second paragraph you have nothing and you know you have nothing and you are just rambling on to play with the simpletons.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
And again Jeff...
Where does it say that the City WILL call a snow emergency after 3 or more inches?
It is not a contractual WILL issue.
The recording says that the City of Saint Paul declares a snow emergency after three or more inches or when accumulations....
That is no contract or commitment. It is a simple explanation of what event needs to occur before a declaraion happens.
The defining issue for a court Jeff is who declares a snow emergency and how is the public notified?
The City declares it, but it has no statuary requirement to declare it. It is not required to declare it because you chose to assume that once there is three inches it MUST.
The phone message is to give reasonably intelligent people a general idea of how the process works.
In this case the City spelled out that it had not declared a snow emergency on Friday Night and why and then declared a snow Emergency on Saturday Night.... 24 hours after it made the first recording.
And it notified people in its normal timely fashion.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Chuck, while the director of public works has wide discretion to declare a snow emergency, it is highly irregular to declare to the public on one hand that a snow emergency " Will be declared after snowfalls of 3 or more inches " ( stating a fact ), then
on the other hand, stating that there will be no taggers, tows, plowing of streets when in fact there has been three inches or more of snow fall .
We have contradictory statements from the department of public works during a legitimate snow emergency where from the director of public works himself, he STATES and announces to the public as a general rule of ordinary procedure,
any snow fall of three or more inches WILL in fact trigger a snow emergency.
You Chuck are gravitating to nit pick this issue based upon what is not apparent in writing and I am relying upon statements of words actually stated and admitted to.
The department of public works has admitted to telling the citizens of St. Paul in their very first communication after the snow fall, that they would not plow side streets, tag or tow and those unfortunate enough to have heard that message . This statement is contrary to the norm .
By the way, when an agency or department of a municipality has discretionary powers
( power to regulate in part based on opinion ) codified by statute or ordinance, a court of law will be able to determine and rule whether there was abuse, mistaken or arbitrary enforcement of the powers vested in the department or agency, so a court has the final say.
Any court of law could say that there was a clear abuse of discretion on the part of public works by issuing contradictory statements of fact in this case.
According to the recording at
266-plow :
" St. Paul declares a snow emergency after snowfalls of three inches or more "
This is what we are taught to believe and this statement is the law of the road.
Jeff Matiatos
I am not nit-picking, Jeff you are the one creating contracts and laws that don't exist.
The message clearly states what is general information. Its purpose is to give a general idea of how the process works.
You know and I know that there is no law that they have to plow at 3 inches, it is totally up to their discression.
As I said and you know, the message that you are wetting your pants about was put on Friday to let people know that there was not a snow emergency at that time. It came off some time on Saturday when the City declared a snow emergency.
And Jeff, they then plowed the 3 inches of snow.... they didn't plow before there was 3 inches of snow (which would be in conflict) they did what they said they would do, when it they were able to do it.
Your insane circular logic is because they didn't declare a snow emergency on the day the 3 inches fell and they explained what were some of the issue why they hadn't plowed yet, they must never plow. Or, no matter what notice they give that notice can not ever be good enough, because at one point they said they aren't plowing yet.
Its insane Jeff.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Well I am done on this issue. I rest my case to the readers out there who may be victims of being towed to appeal the tow to the District Court.
Minnesota Statute 169.041 is the basis to proceed and collect damages.
Over and out.
Jeff Matiatos
I look at the clusterf*ck that Saint Paul has become since Coleman and his band of dim-wits were elected and remind myself that removing my domicile two blocks out of their greasy, incompetant reach was the best thing I ever did for me and my family.
And then I laaaaaaugh and laugh!
BTW, has anyone noticed how badly the street in front of the Excel center has deterioriated?
Looks like it took a direct hit from a improvised moonbat bomb!
But the city's spiffy refrigerated ice rink is smoooooth as glass (Wheee!), your human rights are being watched over by your new HR department, and your bicycle advisory board is planning some most excellent new laws and regulations...so you've got that going for you; which is good.
Better grease up your backsides citizens, Coleman & Co. are gonna need some serious ching next year to keep the circus going, and they're sure as hell not gonna get it from the state!
Was Coleman and Thune's area streets plowed first, No but they clean their streets so the important people can get to work.
OK!
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