Is the Crime Just Being Homeless?
Topic requested...LINK TO STORY HERE
posted by Bob at Monday, January 04, 2010
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Monday, January 04, 2010
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14 Comments:
Thanks for bringing this topic up, Bob.
Repke noted that the rational debate two conservatives are attempting to hold with the echo chamber are outside the pervue of the forum; however it was revived in another separate thread by one of the faithful.
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls/messages/topic/6o8ikgCigLrSeyQolJq5zO
What I hope people here will notice is:
A) How easily leftist ideology is exposed for the empty headed illogical pap that it is.
As Mssrs. Fox and Baumgartner illustrate, a debate with leftists can not fail to devolve into a shit tossing melee. It's like entering the monkey cage at the zoo to discuss the merits of John Locke's philosophies.
B) The level of hypocrisy evident among the ranks of the left.
The discussion is rife with claims of the leftist's compassion and angst, but with a simple paragraph, Mr. Baumgartner tears that facade to pieces...
"Statements such as "We are a wealthy state and we have industries which manufacture building materials. We have no excuses" imply that that a good
number of people are not doing what they "should" do. And, of course, what we "should", in context of your post, is really what YOU think we should do."
" So, in that spirit, here is a real and basic question for you, Wizard: What did you do for those people today that would help their situation? After all, you are 'rich' compared to them. You have "dining room windows", after all.
BAM! There it is.
The weak, pathetic response:
"Mr. Baumgartner, the state, the 87 counties, the cities, towns, and villages of Minnesota have failed to have the political will to erase, or at least greatly
lessen, homelessness. What I have personally done for the homeless is
immaterial and paltry. It requires the political will of 51% of the voting public to change the situation."
"Trying to make it a personal thing and castigating me for your assumption that I do nothing is silly. It's a political problem, not a personal one."
Did you get that? It's not my job to actually do anything...I'm just here to point the finger at YOU.
In an earlier thread, another lefty was similarly outed for the empty headed blowhard he is after several posts from some guy that was kicked to the streets as a theif..
"Jim Graham" spews the leftist lie:
"Those that care about people and feel they have a moral obligation to other humans care about those things."
Mark Fox takes the ball and hits it out of the park:
"Since Ray Rolfe insists on making this a personal saga, why are none of the regulars here offering to put him up for a month or two? You’re not all starvation poor. Maybe just pick him up, give him dinner, and if he’s sufficiently charming, let him use your shower. I keep hearing lectures about
what we owe to each other. Will someone walk their talk? Or did you do your duty on tax day and now your hands are clean?"
"C’mon y’all…who wants to be a good person today? Isn’t Ray Rolfe homeless enough to deserve your pity?"
And leaves Graham laying on the virtual pavement with out his pelt..
"NO Ray does NOT deserve our pity. However Ray does deserve our help, and I am sure some of us are willing to offer some of that help."
"Some of us"...but not me. Nope, not my job. I'm just here to point my finger and spout nonsense.
Judging from my own experiences with e-democracy, these two guys have committed the cardinal sin; that which cannot be excused...they have made utter fools of the lefty echo chamber; calmly, rationally and without uttering a single insult.
They are doomed to be silenced.
Is it legal to rent out a room of my home in St. Paul or must one get a rental license, go through a Cert of Occ inspection first? I have three empty bedrooms and would welcome three good people to help me pay the bills. But, I cannot afford to upgrade my home first. Anyone know? Some of us are willing to help (and in this case, it may help me too).
7:58 first - you do not need a C of O to rent rooms in your home in Saint paul. Do note that you can not have more than 4 unrelated adults in one living unit.
So you and your husband/wife can rent to rooms to 3 other adults and their kids.
And then Swiftee, the point of the thread was should there be laws that are targetted at the homeless, like public urination or vagrency? Some of the liberals argue that those are unfair laws, since you and I have some place to go we are less likely to commit those offences.
Your two right wing champions instead of arguing that the public has right to protect both public and private property from those abuses instead argue that being poor is the poors fault. That of course fires up the left to argue about the selfishness of the right wing... and your champion then argues that before the left tax him they should take the poor into their own houses.
Their brilliant argument is the same as me saying that I shouldn't be taxed for the war in Iraq since I don't think I benefit from it and that is was waged only for the oil companies; then you saying that it is all of our responsibility for the defense of the country and me saying well I ain't paying until at least one of the Bush's or Cheaney's actually join the Army... its just as disjointed.
As to should we have laws that against trespassing, public urination and vagrency? I vote yes.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Federal Program www.caprw.org
only Ramsey and Washington Co.
"Your two right wing champions instead of arguing that the public has right to protect both public and private property from those abuses instead argue that being poor is the poors fault."
I see it went right over your head too, Repke. Well, there's no surprise there.
Mr. Fox implicitly stated, at least five times, that one of the first mistakes the left makes is to lump "the poor" together.
That's convenient when they are using a self-awarded sense of superior morality to extort money from their more intelligent, rational neighbors, but it isn't logical.
There are people that through no fault of their own find themselves in dire straights; out of the vast crowd of entitlement dependent not many, but they do exist.
Neither Fox, nor myself suggest that it's morally ethical to refuse help to the blameless down-and-out, which includes every and all kids. But, speaking for myself, I have no problem denying some 35 year old drug addict free room and board, whether directly rendered at my house or through my wallet.
"...and your champion then argues that before the left tax him they should take the poor into their own houses."
And why not? He wasn't the one spewing his smarmy compassion all over the walls, the lefties were.
"Wizard Marks", in one breath, describes the troop of homeless wretches that pass her window every day, blames "society" for lack of compassion and then denies her indifference matters!
"You" (plural; leftists) all have the big hearts. "You're" above judging; you take them in...but "you" won't and you're too full of your own BS to admit it.
What "you" want, is for "me" to do it, and do it under "your" rules. And after "I" am forced to do it, "you'll" remind that drug addict of what a great person "you" are...so vote for "me" or you'll not get that freebie next year.
"Their brilliant argument is the same as me saying that I shouldn't be taxed for the war in Iraq since I don't think I benefit from it and that is was waged only for the oil companies; then you saying that it is all of our responsibility for...& etc."
Well, I agree your thought process, as displayed right there, is disjointed but it has nothing to do with the discussion they, or I'm engaging in.
The allegory you're searching for is someone who themselves shout about the necessity of sending troops to fight a war and calling others cowards for not stepping up, but refusing to go themselves.
It has nothing to do with taxes in either case.
As I say, that discussion is one of the best displays of leftist hypocrisy and ignorance I've ever seen play out. Those leftist tools on e-democracy got their pointy little ears pinned back, and they are too dim witted to even realize it.
Oh, and let us not forget that Mayor Chris Coleman gave us another gleaming example of leftist hypocrisy, as well as highlighting his own incompetence, in today's Pioneer Press:
"Chris Coleman urges regional solutions for St. Paul"
Hell yeah, he's certainly incapable of doing anything right...so it's up to "you" to bail him, and every lefty moron that voted for him out of the hole they've dug.
Un-fricking-believable. He really is a chip off the old block, isn't he?
I can almost hear Norm and Randy laughing their asses off right now...enjoy those double digit tax increases, dolts. You're on your own, and don't forget..."It's for the common good".
Well Swiftee I am not asking you to house the poor because it is good for your sole, I am telling you that it is cheaper to house them than to pay to lock them up.
Our, kick the guy who has less than you, government is in the long run, more expensive than one that would actually deal with problems.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
And it would be cheaper yet to abandon the lefty policies that make them poor and homeless in the first place wouldn't it Chcuk?
PLEASE GO TO "americansendinghomelessness.webs.com" and become a member. Its free. THERE IS POWER IN NUMBERS. EVERY LIFE HAS EQUAL VALUE! WE HAVE TO SHOW OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT AMERICANS WANT BUSINESS AS USUAL TO CHANGE.
THERE IS POWER IN NUMBERS. THE LARGER THE NUMBER THE LOUDER OUR VOICE!
10:40 - lefty policies...????
Please, somebody help me understand what people mean by "Lefty policies." We have had Republican presidents for 28 of the last 41 years and Southern Democrats in the white house for 12 of the other 13 (remember welfare reform and cutting benefits happened under Clinton.)
From the chair I am sitting in on the left side of the room, the right wing has held the presidency for 40 of the last 41 years... So, its a little damn hard for me to understand where in the heck you right wingers come from about blaming the left when we don't ever get to be in charge.
We haven't actually elected anyone that was on the left since FDR for crying out loud!
And in Minnesota the we haven't had even a moderate in the Governor's seat since Wendy Anderson. So, that is 32 years of the conservatives being in charge.
So, I know you'll try to blame the problems of the poor on local mayors, well, I am sorry but mayors have nothing to do with welfare of most social programs. The bulk of the city budget goes to cops, fire and public works.
Sorry, guys the "lefties" aren't in charge of the social mess... this is what you get from 30-40 years of the right wing in charge.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
"Well Swiftee I am not asking you to house the poor because it is good for your sole [sic], I am telling you that it is cheaper to house them than to pay to lock them up."
First of all, leave my shoes out of this.
If cost efficiency is the issue, hell, we could re-open some of the Army bases that have been closed and fill them with homeless.
Sure!
The barbed wire is already in place, all that's lacking is a couple of fire guards to make sure they don't burn the place down with their crack pipes.
Nice warm barracks and free government cheese...what's not to love?
Of course there is another cost efficient solution.
According to polls, the country is pretty well divided between the caring, sharing, enlightened left, and the cold hearted right.
Every two faced lefty that has ever popped off about how much they care could take in a bum; real, lowlife scumbags of the sort that are sporting "Franken" bumper stickers should take two.
Problem solved.
"So, I know you'll try to blame the problems of the poor on local mayors..."
No, lefty mayors are responsible for the mess they make of their cities; for the business their asinine anti-business policies run out of town; for wasting the financial resources entrusted to them.
As I said earlier, most of "the poor" have dug their own holes.
Lefty mayors do not get directly involved in setting the table for failure until they get to the state or national level.
"From the chair I am sitting in on the left side of the room, the right wing has held the presidency for 40 of the last 41 years... So, its a little damn hard for me to understand where in the heck you right wingers come from about blaming the left when we don't ever get to be in charge."
You're right. Who can ever forget the generations of people lost to Nixon's "War on Poverty". The GOP never really washed itself clean as the architects of the modern welfare state. We wonder if Ford ever felt bad about Cabrini Greens or the Robert Taylor Homes. Bush 39 will certainly never shed the infamy of his needle exchange programs, Bush 41 will certainly burn in hell for what he did to Detroit and Reagan's legacy will always carry the stain of the Community Reinvestment Act.
Well Swiftee, you just made my point in 1969 Nixon dismantled the War on Poverty and wiped out most of its programs. Since then you clowns have been bitching about it even though it doesn't exist.
41 years of do nothing let the cities rot policies from the GOP and you are bring up housing units built in 1962 and wonder what the hell went wrong with them in 40 years of being starved of any kind of serious programs to deal with poverty.
Swiftee do you remember back in the 60's when welfare moms had social workers that did home visits.... how about propation officers checking up on truent youths? Do you remember back in the good old days when we had liberal programs?
Because they have been gone for forty years.
What you are complaining about is the GOP's view of what a social program should look like, not what a liberal program would do.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
"Please, somebody help me understand what people mean by "Lefty policies." We have had Republican presidents for 28 of the last 41 years"
Who's talking about Presidents. I'm talking about leadership in St. Paul and that has been all DFL forever.
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