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Thursday, July 23, 2009

St. Paul / Lawsuit aims at police chief

Topic requested...Please click onto the COMMENTS for the story.

38 Comments:

Anonymous Pioneer Press said...

Telling truth allegedly got cop in hot water
By David Hanners
dhanners@pioneerpress.com
Updated: 07/23/2009 12:37:21 AM CDT


St. Paul Police Chief John Harrington targeted an officer for retaliation after the man complained that a supervisor and fellow officers littered the workplace with sexually and racially offensive terms, according to a lawsuit filed Wednesday.

Derrick Boone, who had been a member of the department's gang unit, claims Harrington repeatedly retaliated against him by barring him from working overtime, demoting him to patrol officer and disciplining him for an alleged off-duty incident — even though the department's own internal affairs unit and a civilian review board concluded there was no wrongdoing.

Boone, who became a St. Paul policeman in 2001 after serving as a sniper in the Marines, claims the trouble started after he was asked to give testimony in a workplace investigation into alleged sexual harassment.

"You've got an officer who has an impeccable record and is really a star in the department," said Andrew Muller, one of the Minneapolis attorneys representing Boone. "He gets brought into this investigation. He wasn't looking for it. He testifies truthfully and — wham! — everything changes."

The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Minneapolis. St. Paul police spokesman Sgt. Paul Schnell said the department wouldn't comment on pending litigation.

Schnell said Boone is now assigned to patrol duties in the Central District.

The suit is not the first time a St. Paul officer has claimed the department retaliated against a
whistleblower since Harrington became chief in 2004.

Sgt. Jon Loretz was placed on leave shortly after he claimed that officers were boozing it up in a police station after they got off their shifts. The leave ended up lasting 21 months.

During that time, department officials said they were investigating complaints that Loretz abused his authority and whether he was fit to serve. The department never substantiated the claims, and he returned to work, said Steve Cooper, Loretz's attorney.

"From our point of view, he was unfairly and severely punished," Cooper said Wednesday.

Boone spent 2007 and much of 2008 assigned to the St. Paul Police Department's Gang/ Gun Unit. The suit says it is considered an "elite unit" within the department, and getting assigned to it "is a coveted position and a career building opportunity for police officers."

But after arriving there, Boone "witnessed multiple instances of race and color harassment by fellow officers," the suit claims. He also "witnessed instances of gender bias and sexual harassment against at least one female member of the SPPD."

The suit says fellow officers used a computer screensaver that contained a derogatory term for African-Americans, and that officers "regularly used racially offensive language in the workplace."

Boone also claimed that the unit's commander at the time, Tim Flynn, used a sexually derogatory term in reference to a female member of the Gang/Gun Unit.

The alleged behavior took place "during work hours, in the workplace, and in the presence of the SPPD Gang Unit Commander Flynn, who took no actions to stop the misconduct," the suit contends.

9:54 AM  
Anonymous story continued said...

Boone said that in December 2007, his superiors asked him to provide testimony in a sexual harassment and gender-bias investigation involving a female officer. He told the investigator about Flynn's alleged conduct, and that's when Boone's troubles began, the suit says.

From Feb. 25, 2008, to as recently as this week, Harrington and others have engaged in at least 13 instances of retaliation and reprisals, the suit says. Some actions were based on complaints investigated by the internal affairs unit or the department's Civilian Review Board.

The suit says one allegation was investigated by the review board three times and found without merit each time. The complaint said it involved "giving a ride to a civilian in a department vehicle," without further elaboration.

Each time the board cleared Boone, Harrington "refused to accept the findings that cleared plaintiff and sent the complaint back for further review," the suit says.

Some claimed instances of reprisals involve Harrington barring Boone from working overtime or off-duty jobs. Many police officers in the Twin Cities supplement their incomes through overtime and after-hours jobs.

The most recent claimed incident of reprisal was Monday. The suit claims Harrington notified Boone through the police officer's union that Boone would not be allowed to work off-duty jobs "and that defendant Harrington would not reconsider the issue until at least next spring."

"With the exception of the way they have treated the plaintiff, defendants have never before ... subjected another officer to the same type of discipline as they have imposed" on Boone, the suit says.


Muller's colleague on the case, Minneapolis lawyer John Klassen, said Boone is a good officer and did what he was supposed to do.

"You've seen again good cops who are following the straight and narrow, and when they're asked to testify in an investigation against somebody in the command structure, they're viewed as crossing that blue line and they suffer consequences," Klassen said. "That's what the allegations in a nutshell are."

The suit accuses the city and Harrington of depriving Boone of his civil rights, retaliation and aiding and abetting reprisals.

Harrington was the subject of complaints alleging a hostile workplace filed by Cmdr. Todd Axtell and Sgt. Tyrone Strickland in 2007. The men claimed they had been turned down for promotions, and both noted they had supported political candidates opposing the candidates favored by Harrington or the St. Paul Police Federation.

An outside investigator hired by the city determined the complaints were unsubstantiated.

Mara H. Gottfried contributed to this report. David Hanners can be reached at 612-338-6516.

9:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

St. Paul wouldn't retaliate against anyone would they? I'm shocked! Get in here Chuck and straighten this shit out will you?

Bob any idea if this guy is a Democrat or Republican cop?

1:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I certainly believe this happened. I was near the Loretz case too and while that wasn't as cut and dry, it was evident that some cops are as nasty toward each other as they can be toward civilians.

I don't know if politics matter on this one. Chief Harrington is NOT a DFLer. He is a conservative. He has made it clear over the years. He drops all that liberal/conservative bs when it comes to cops or ex-cops involved in politics.

This is another example of what I have said for three years. I can assure that discrimination and unfairness exist within in city government but, it lies with individuals and not systematic or conspiratorial for a an unseen purpose. Its just that there are jerks work for the city like any other industry.


Eric

2:26 PM  
Anonymous NJ Mayors Indicted said...

How about the corruption of NJ Mayors http://lying-lawyers.blogspot.com

4:07 PM  
Anonymous Jeff Matiatos said...

It's about that code of silence thing and protecting your brother cops.





Jeff Matiatos

4:09 PM  
Anonymous Jeff Matiatos said...

Eric, it becomes a conspiratorial matter when charges of discrimination are filed and it was learned that two or more people did everything they can to cover it up, and acted in a fashion that caused contempt upon the victim.

Civil conspiracy is a cause of action.

Normally, attorneys representing clients in conspiracy cases cannot be held as accomplices even though their actions try to cover up through dismissal tactics and resistance to discovery that could lead to conviction.

But if it can be shown that the Chief and perhalps one other knew and or aided in the action against this officer, there can be liability.


This is not a conspiracy case but a reprisal suit / whistle blower issue.






Jeff Matiatos

4:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kiss my a** Jeff!

6:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bend over baby !!! I got something for you.

7:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff,
What you described is just run of the mill corruption. The end goal is to hide the corrupt action.

In a conspiracy, the corruption and lies to cover it are just the means to an end. What's the end goal here besides status quo?

Maybe I'm interchanging conspiracy and RICO terms.

Eric

7:45 PM  
Anonymous Jeff Matiatos said...

Eric, I think I will change my statement on this case to say that I WOULD allege civil conspiracy claims because the plaintiff attorneys have alleged that at least 13 others and the Chief retaliated.

The attorneys suggest a meeting of the minds to either demote and discriminate against the officers.

But Stephen Cooper is perhalps the best Human Rights / discrimination attorney out there. He knows what he is doing.

He was the former Commisioner of Human Rights.


Jeff Matiatos

8:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Check former St. Paul Police Chief Bill Finney's record as a patrol officer. Finney was reprimanded for his racist conduct when he refused to file a hate crime as such.

I can't get into much of details because of a Non-Disclosure agreement with the City of Saint Paul. But basically Bill Finney (who is African-American) decided that 4 African-American males assaulting a white male, calling the white male racial names while committing the assault with weapons.

When the incident and the lack of action on Bill Finney's part (not the first by the way) was brought to his supervisors, the city offered up the hush money quick.

The reason Bill Finney gave for not filing the assault as a hate crime is because in his opinion it was not a racially motivated crime.

To me and obviously to the City of St. Paul, 4 African-American males assaulting a white male, can calling him a Honkey while beating the white male is not racially motivated behavior, but not in the eyes of Bill Finney.

8:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:56am

It was my understanding that Finney was never a patrol officer and was on the leadership track back early in his career.

Even if he was, that would have been back in the 1970's. Hate Crime legislation didn't come about until the 1990's.

I think your non-disclosure excuse should be a non-bullshit clause.

Tell us, you hate Finney. You resent him ever being Chief and any opportunity to bring that up, you take it.

Thanks for playing.


Eric

6:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eric,

Your mentor and friend, Bill Finney I am sorry to say graduated from the police academy and was on patrol. The idea of this peice of shit being on the fast track to a leadership role is the biggest laugh I have had today.

Finney was given special treatment, like being able to take advancement tests before others, getting to take the test twice before others even took the test.

Care to ask Mark Shields about the testing?

Now Finney's goons are trying to go after Harrington.

More to come.

Retired SPPD

9:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well Eric. you are wrong about Finney. Not only was he a patrol officer, but he was a "foot" patrol officer up on Selby. His partner was Benner. And guess what? He treated black folks like shit when he used to "walk the beat".

12:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If he was my mentor, that would make me a cop. I am not. I haven't talked with him in while but, I would still call him a friend. You know what? I like Harrington too, he and my mother grew up in the same neighborhood. I'm also cool with Titus. As you know, those are three different factions within law enforcement, sometime. So what?

I have respect for them as individuals. I have sought their counsel on different issues. I also disagree with them on specific issues or actions.

What I don't do, is get involved with the internal power/political struggles and bullshit inside the department. I'm not a cop, so I don't have to pick a side. I just care that they do their job when out and about.

As a matter of fact, civilians should not be involved in that mess, as long as it doesn't spill over in job performance. You yourself ought to be ashamed of trying to bring that up here. If you failed to make your point while a cop, STFU in retirement. Go fishing.

Lately I've been observing a whole new tactic when it comes to successful minorities. There are some bitter pills (ie you) who have nothing to do but denigrate their accomplishment to being something that was handed to them.

In each case there seems to be an underlying, strong hate for their politics or personality.

You don't like Bill Finney, great. But, to try and sit aback and say that the several levels of leadership saw that 35 years ago he would rise to become chief and they needed to accommodate him in any way possible- makes no sense. Its essentially nonsense.

The SPPD of the 70's was not exactly open to hiring or promoting minorities beyond the old Rondo area. I believe it was less than 10% of the cops back then had a college degree.

So when Finney came around with a couple of years of experience from another force, college education and the military training coupled with a likable personality and being a hometown boy, I'm sure he made an impression with some and was threat to others. I'm sure Harrington experienced it too coming to the department with an Ivy League degree.

Back to your original story, the corrections:

Finney came to the department and was in the leadership program. It was one of the things Fletcher knocked him around over when he was running for Sheriff.

You seem to debate that but, what's not debatable is that 'Hate Crimes' were not even a word, let alone legislation until Finney was the Chief.

Chin up though, you were able to appeal to the racists and bigots among us with your fake hate crime story and the whole Finney promoted with merit story.

You're one sad sack and we are all better that you are not on the street anymore.

Now true to your M.O., comeback and muddy me up. I'm waiting.


Eric

1:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eric, you said, "What I don't do, is get involved with the internal power/political struggles and bullshit inside the department."

Pleases explain your involvement in trashing bob Fletcher then? Did you do this because he is white? I notice how quick you were to use the race card just like Finney did when he was on the Department. Interesting, next you are going to bring Tyrone Terrill into it, just like Finney has done to protect his rear when he got in trouble.

Eric you are nothing but a SSOS (sorry sack of sh-t). You come here claiming to be this high and mighty moral blogger, but you are only a raciest like Finney.

4:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pleases explain your involvement in trashing bob Fletcher then? Did you do this because he is white? I notice how quick you were to use the race card just like Finney did when he was on the Department. Interesting, next you are going to bring Tyrone Terrill into it, just like Finney has done to protect his rear when he got in trouble.

Nope.
I didn't trash Bob Fletcher. Please point out where I did that.
I campaigned against him because I thought it was time for a new sheriff. Recent arrests and headlines are proving me right. Doesn't appear his color had anything to do with. Most people who I have supported for office are white.

By the way, the Sheriff himself, is of public concern and rightfully up for discussion. He is an elected official and his accountability lies with the voters. Learn that. And learn this, Tyrone Terrill has not worked for the city for about year.

You're the one that came here and wasn't satisfied enough with trashing Finney (on yet another thread) but you used examples of race quotas, racial bias and reverse racism(all the tactics fo a useless loser) to try and beefen up your claim against Finney. I pointed out that you're a liar, remember?

You claimed Finney wouldn't arrest some kids for a hate crime (although its the city or county attorney that decides what to charge perps with) back when he was a patrol officer. I simply pointed out that was impossible since it was 20 years before hate crime was a definition or a word.
But, it didn't stop you trying to use race to gin up the atmosphere.

You also claim that Finney was promoted without merit and given cheating privileges for tests. It doesn't take a civil rights historian to recognize that a vastly white and non-educated police force in the early 1970's would not be so receptive to a college educated, military trained, black law enforcement officer. The same force that had zero women officers. Even if a couple of supervisors were giving Finney favors, too many others would be there to give him shit.

You have come to the right place to advocate for a conspiracy, its just your doesn't add up. You've been caught lying, which wouldn't have happened if you would have stuck to the topic.

And then, as predicted, to try yet again to change the subject from your lying piehole, you call me a racist.

I also noticed that you signed off on one as a Sgt.

Sgt is a few levels below Chief isn't it? I'm guessing you had a lot of resentment built up. The only solace you can find is convince yourself the your enemies who were promoted over you had some unearned benefit given to them by higher ups. The other answer would be, you're just a loser.


Eric

9:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eric, you said, "You've been caught lying, which wouldn't have happened if you would have stuck to the topic."

This is right out of the playbook of DFL 101. When on the ropes, claim the other is not telling the truth. If you say this over and over again, even if what you say is not true the public will not know the difference between right and wrong.

So you come here and accuse me of not telling the truth, ok Eric Mitchell what have I lied about? I have never in my life been afraid of individuals like you. You talk all big, but cry like a little baby when you are put in the back of the squad.

1:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First, wipe your mouth and straighten up your toupee Adolph.

You lied about the incident of Finney not pushing for a hate crime arrest when he was a patrol cop because it was white kid being beaten by black kids.
I reminded you that there was no such thing as hate crimes in the 1970's when Finney would have been a patrol cop. That didn't come around until the 1990's when Finney was Chief.
I also reminded you that cops don't decide what they'll be brought before the judge for- county attorney does.

You lied about the department letting Finney skate through and cheat on tests.
I remind you that in the early 1970's that department was a different place.

You lied about malice behind what I write on here.

Now, crying like a baby in the back of a squad is not exactly true, more like begging and pleading. Who the hell wants to go through intake and lockup?

I'm more concerned about cops like you (no doubt a wonderful example of law enforcement) who would abuse their position to prove a point. What point is that? You're in over your head debating with me so you'll 'teach me a lesson' by getting your friends to lock me up? I'm starting to think that illegal corrupt behavior is something of the norm with too many on the public payroll.

You're a fine outstanding individual. Get your ass kicked much before dropping out of high school?

Do whatever you want you anonymous puke but know this, I won't be in handcuffs forever, I know enough attorneys and judges and your bullshit you write on here will be attached to an ip address and name. All it takes is one order from a judge to open this thread.

So you want to keep talking shit? Go ahead. Get your boys to arrest me. Have big effin laugh. Kiss
that pension goodbye the moment I get my turn.

That's how I deal with bully with badges.

9:54
I don't respect anybody for all aspects of their life. I named three people who are cops and who have been at odds at different times- or all the time to show you I'm not the one painted in a box.

I'm sure lots of cops have personal issues and holding a marriage together is pretty damn tough when you deal with what they do. I'm not here to make excuses, just corrections.

I'll give you another example maybe you grasp. John Mccain. You respect him? Of course you do. War Hero, Public Servant for 30 years. Does it change your respect for him knowing that after her came back from Nam, and his wife waited for him, he began running around on her? See she was in a car accident while he was a POW and didn't have the model figure she had when he left. He actually started cheating with Cyndi, 17 years younger and 150 million richer, than he was while he was still married. Divorced his wife to married the young heiress who's father helped pave the way to Congress for John McCain.

Still, it doesn't change the respect you have for McCain does it? No.


Eric

2:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eric,

Everything I posted is based on facts, something you can't grasp. Your limited knowledge of the facts is evident. Finney was dirty, he was a raciest and he never deserved the top job of police chief. Mark Shields was more qualified and scored higher on the test than Finney. Mark was white and Finney was black and he was excluded because of his color. No politician in St. Paul ever called Finney on his criminal behavior because of Finney’s ties to the community. City Council member Jim Reiter did call Finney on his behavior. What did Finney do, he sent his goons after him. By Finney's own example as chief, he ruined it for any person of color wanting to sit in that seat because they will always be compared to Finney and his dirty ways.

I like how you turned my words around and assume you are going to be thrown into the back of a squad. I will spell it out for you so there is no misunderstanding. I was referring to big mouthed individuals like yourself who talk all big, but when they get thrown into the back of the squad they cry like a baby.

I like how you assume I am a john McCain supporter, as if this is some sort of put down to make you feel bigger somehow. Sorry Eric, not a McCain supporter.

Eric you have proven my point more so than you know that you just talk to hear yourself talk. You have showed your true colors.

Sleep well little one, do your have your blanket? Did mommy get you some warm milk?

3:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" I'am starting to think that illegal corrupt behavior is something of the norm with too many on the public payroll "

Eric.



Well you wouldn't be thinking that way if you weren't participating here I'am sure. I am glad were all starting to get Eric to see the light about corruption in this town.


" I know enough attorneys and judges and your bullshit you write on here will be attached to an ip address and name.
All it takes is an order from one judge to open this thread ".

Eric.



You must think you rate pretty high in this town Eric to make us believe you have judges and attorneys in your back pocket.
Your just a pinko stooley fink trying to get ahead any way you can Eric. No judge gives a shit about what you have to say. Especially when it involves the men in blue.
It sounds to me your the type that rats people out by sending judges little notes about those who are opposed to the judiciary and other matters that expose the bullshit that goes on in this town with your DFL pinko commie judges and city officials who are in ka-hutes.
Somehow I get the feeling someone else will start taking a little more interest in who you are. No threat here, just a feeling I get every now in then in general.
Why don't you paste that.

10:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Finney,

Write me a "kite" and explain how you are such a saint.

The doors will be a slamming.

Ha ha ha.

11:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your limited knowledge of the facts is evident. Finney was dirty, he was a raciest and he never deserved the top job of police chief. Mark Shields was more qualified and scored higher on the test than Finney. Mark was white and Finney was black and he was excluded because of his color.

Again. Finney could not have been accused of refusing to makes an arrest under a hate crime laws when he was a patrol officer, it wasn't a law in the 1970's. By the time it became a law- he was chief.

I have only seen two Chiefs while living in St Paul, both have been black. One was a local guy with a big personality with a lot of non-police support, the other is an Ivy League Chicago guy who worked his way through the ranks and got the respect of a lot of cops. Both were accused of getting a leg up over someone else because of their race.

I've watched four different guys become Chief in Minneapolis. Same thing. Accusations of better people being passed up with each and every one of them. Its the name of the game.

Its also evident of what I said earlier, all police leaders have their supporters and antagonists within the ranks. Don't believe it? Look at any thread or comment section for any story on Fletcher or any local law enforcement story. Its usually the Finney/Fletcher factions that go at it. Like you're doing here, except I'm trying not be dragged in it.

This story is internal police bs political power struggle stuff. Its why you came on here saying it was Finney's goons doing this. I am not fighting with you over that. People have said Finney was dirty on here forever, usually when there is a story about Fletcher looking less than honorable. I'm not fighting that. I'm saying, stop lying and ginning up racial animosity to make your point about someone you don't like. Its obvious what you have a problem with when every single section you post makes sort of pokes that inner racist that tells you another black person got something they didn't deserve. You're more transparent that you think.

No politician in St. Paul ever called Finney on his criminal behavior because of Finney’s ties to the community.

I thought you said he was racist toward blacks too? Also, it doesn't take a politician to do anything, there was a whole police department there with higher ranking officers for over 20 years before Finney became the chief. Human Rights Department, FBI, US Attorney's Office and even the broadcast news are some places you could have went with proof if he was corrupt and the politicians wouldn't do anything.

Don't tell me they would not have done anything, right now the Sheriff, who is elected and have a bigger area than the Chief is up to his neck in investigations. Your reasoning is not sound, logical or even plausible.



Eric

11:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:33
You must think you rate pretty high in this town Eric to make us believe you have judges and attorneys in your back pocket.
Your just a pinko stooley fink trying to get ahead any way you can Eric. No judge gives a shit about what you have to say. Especially when it involves the men in blue.


First of all, a jackass who goes around abusing that badge and uniform is not a 'man' in blue. He's a blackeye on the department. Usually his type is taken care of internally.

'pinko, stooley, fink'?
Hey, the 1950's called and they want their adjectives back.

I don't claim to big a big shot and never have on here. I've got nobody in my 'back pocket'.
I just know that judges frown heavily on public servants who abuse their power with threats. Us civilians have no recourse except through the judicial process. Learn the system and the personalities.


It sounds to me your the type that rats people out by sending judges little notes about those who are opposed to the judiciary and other matters that expose the bullshit that goes on in this town with your DFL pinko commie judges and city officials who are in ka-hutes.

You mean 'cahoots'.
I don't understand, am I a little know-nothing peon as you set up in your first paragraph, or am I actually in cahoots with pinko commie judges?


Somehow I get the feeling someone else will start taking a little more interest in who you are. No threat here, just a feeling I get every now in then in general. Why don't you paste that.


Somehow, I also get a feeling. I get a feeling that you have no clue that I'm a little stronger than to be paranoid of veiled threats and innuendos of voyeurism. I so scared.

I'll deal with whatever comes my way- all the way. If I was easily intimidated, I wouldn't sign my name to everything I write. If I was a punk, I would come on here like a little weasel cowardly chump, threatening people anonymously.

But, I do sign my name and stand behind what I say.


Eric

12:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eric said, "First of all, a jackass who goes around abusing that badge and uniform is not a 'man' in blue. He's a blackeye on the department. Usually his type is taken care of internally."

That would be true except if he or she was a member of a "protected" class like Bill Finney.

Finney was dirty to the core, but because of his color he was given a pass.

If Finney felt people were getting to close to turning him in he would pull a Gates.

12:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and... again with race. Some of you are so consumed with hatred, you can't see beyond your bigotry into anything. Everything is anecdotal to your racist views.

This story was about the Chief having some problems with his cops. The chief is black and the officers are black and white.

I read that and see this as internal power plays within the department.

You read this and tie in your racist beliefs to make it more than it is.

If anything, this story proves that race has no bearing on rather someone is a good cop, a bad cop or in the boys club or out of it.

You see it differently. You seem to be living in the past in every way and unfortunately for you, there are fewer and fewer people living there with you.

Suffer.


Eric

1:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I'll deal with whatever comes my way- all the way. If I was easily intimidated, I wouldn't sign my name to everything I write. If I was a punk, I would come on here like a little weasel cowardly chump, threatening people anonymously."

So you are a tough guy huh?

8:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, I am, what are you going to do about it?

9:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you are a tough guy huh?
8:48 PM


I'm tough enough but, I'm even smarter than that.

So, seeing how this has become about me and I've said all I have to say on the actually title story- I'm done.


Eric

12:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quitter!

3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two ways to answer that:

1. When you win a race, you don't stand around and debate with the losers about how you won or why they lost. You get your trophy and prepare for the next race.

or

2. You can wrestle around in the mud with a dog for so long before its hard to tell the difference between the you and dog.

You can read the first ten posts and see where it went off the tracks for the next 23 posts.


Eric

4:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The first ten post really had something to do with what jeff said.
Nice try blaming it on him Eric.
I don't think Jeff was that far off topic at all.

4:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

*sigh* (why are stupid people so quick to open their mouths?)

This is why I can never sign off. Some of you should just stay away from the computer.

My point is the first ten posts were on subject, and next 23 were not. It all started with the post at 8:54am

Jeff didn't post after that, and I shouldn't have.


Eric

5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"1. When you win a race, you don't stand around and debate with the losers about how you won or why they lost."

Sounds like you have an attitudde to me. Good winners always give interviews afterwards. I think you have an ego problem. Maybe we should get Jeff in here to give you a godd ass woopin again.

3:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This is why I can never sign off. Some of you should just stay away from the computer."

So i suppose the next thing you are going to pull is try and send us a bill to get you a new computer when the one you have takes a crap?

3:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What Jeff are you talking about?
They haven't clashed for a while on here but, if you got back a couple of pages, you'd see that Eric was quite freely sweeping the floor up with him. When Eric took a break, Chuck would step in and crush him.

Eric is pretty good backing his political points, Chuck knows this city better than anyone and Jeff has a place for researching cases.

Don't get me wrong, Chuck and Eric won't win any contests here but they get points for making strong points knowing few will agree.

10:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff
It's election time for mayor ,
help a new person in.
The Democrats are out.

8:01 AM  

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