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Friday, December 12, 2008

St. Paul homeowners caught in tax assessment adjustment grill officials

Please click onto the COMMENTS for the story.

posted by Bob at Friday, December 12, 2008

4 Comments:

Blogger Bob said...

Homeowners caught in assessment adjustment grill officials
By Dave Orrick
dorrick@pioneerpress.com
Updated: 12/12/2008 02:01:03 AM CST


About 40,000 homes in Ramsey County saw their market values fall but their taxable market values, and thus their taxes, rise this year — a paradox.

Some of those homeowners showed up at Arlington Senior High School in St. Paul on Thursday night with questions.

At least 175 people attended the annual truth-in-taxation hearing, held by Ramsey County, the city of St. Paul and the St. Paul school district.

Some lobbed insults at their captive audience on the stage: county commissioners, City Council members, Mayor Chris Coleman and school board members, whose night it was not to give speeches but to listen.

"You guys are a bunch of Buddhas up there. You don't have the brains of a monkey," said Robert Higgins, of Shoreview.

Mary Gross, of St. Paul's Merriam Park neighborhood, suggested "abolishing" the current structures of county and city governments.

The owner of an automotive shop held the hands of his two sons and said they would leave St. Paul. "How much more can we bleed?" he asked.

A few steps outside the auditorium, questions flew more than shouts as residents packed a waiting area for a chance to consult with two dozen county appraisers.

"We're being educated on the process," said Liz Tolzman, who, with her husband, Scott, wanted to know why their taxable value rose 12 percent during a year when the economy — and especially the housing market — was flushed down the toilet.

Their home in the Hamline-Midway neighborhood was apparently one of the 40,000. County assessor Stephen Baker said such homes were among a shrinking number for which a years-old gap between actual market value and taxable market value needed to be closed. That gap is almost completely gone; next year, he said, only 6,000 homes will be in that situation.

Moreover, Baker said, many of those homes did see a decrease in their estimated market value, but it wasn't larger than the gap, and that figure wasn't included on truth-in-taxation statements recently mailed to homeowners.

In all, 42 percent of county residences will see a decrease in property taxes, while 58 percent will see an increase, according to county figures.

In St. Paul, the median taxable home value fell 4.6 percent. The owners of a $183,000 house will pay $6 more in taxes this year.

Dave Orrick can be reached at 651-292-1159.

10:38 AM  
Blogger Bob said...

I copied and pasted these comments from twincities.com ... WOW, John Krenik is still around. Thought he left town. :-)

John Krenik
Saint Paul, MN

It is truly a shame our elected leaders want to raise our property taxes to such a high degree in these vary hard economic times. Over the past three and a half years we have seen our property taxes raised over 48% in St. Paul. In our family budgets we have to do more with less, as we don’t have taxing authority and I would like to see our elected leaders be more responsible with OUR money.

Funding unnecessary things like $300,000 for refrigerated ice rinks is a waste of money. Expecting a bailout from the state through LGA (state money) is not the answer either. It is still tax money that has to come from someone’s pocket.

Last night we heard all the verbal terrorism from our elected leaders in regards to the budget and the need to raise property taxes, but what St. Paul needs is our elected leaders need to manage their budgets like we all run our own budgets. If we don’t have it, don’t spend it. Raising taxes like our three governmental agencies plan to do is only going to put the final nail in the coffin of numerous individuals who are only just getting by now. Local businesses are taxed in St. Paul at a rate that puts them in a financial disadvantage, as compared with their counterparts in neighboring cities. This business model does not foster job growth, but instead will cause job reductions. We can’t afford job reductions in these hard economic times.

Bud in St Paul
Minneapolis, MN

If I could sell my condo without a loss I would move out of St.Paul but now I'm stuck.

DizzyOne
Norcross, GA

What's new here? The city and county have been doing this for years. Always saying, "We didn't raise taxes we just re-assessed your property." Same old scam.

Wheresmytaco
Hastings, MN

You get the results from the people voted into office. When are you going to realize the connection? Liberals=Increase in taxes, during good times or bad times...

Henry
Minnetonka, MN

I don't care what Coleman has to say, I think that we need to hear from his Two lobbyists, Education Liaison, Environmental Policy Director, Arts and Culture Liaison or the Duplicative Human Rights Director. Oh look, I just saved over $1 million dollars by cutting these useless positions.

Dee Dee
Minneapolis, MN
Reply »

I found it sickening how they all sat on stage above us all, looking down on us like awe were a bunch of rubes. And then, didn't even have the decency to answer our questions. Also, where was Thune?

Tired of it all

Who votes the same bunch of bandits in year after year?

Jason
Eden Prairie, MN

Most of the People at the December 2008 Ramsey County, St Paul Truth in Taxation Hearing had the same thing to say. Their property value went down; while their property taxes when up significantly. Obviously, there is a problem with the way property taxes are being assessed. In reality, the system doesn't make sense because it first starts with determining expenditures and then assigning levies. That is like shopping online without any consideration of your credit card limit. Truly it doesn't matter what the value of your property is, the government will just increase the amount you are expected to pay relative to your neighbor. So you both get it, it's just if your house is a little bigger, or yard a little nicer, your neighborhood a little hipper, you'll get more of an increase. Anyway, this guy breaks it down the best. There was a lot of crying and **** off people at this meeting, but sometimes it's just best to get down to the facts. It was a sorry meeting because none of the elected officials had anything to say that was reassuring. Anyone can say we are in hard times. I'll do it for free right now, "We are in hard times". I just don't know why these guys (e.i., elected officials on stage) make $150k + to say that. Tell me something I don't know. I youtubed it, if your interested in seeing it for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Taxing the over taxed
Minneapolis, MN

I have a quick question for all of you. Do you really think this is going to change? For the City of St. Paul during our last City Council election five of the seven members were re-elected. Of the two that weren't one was due to retirement.

Right now we, the people of St. Paul and Ramsey County, are sending mixed messages to our elected leaders. We criticize them in meetings like this but then praise them for a job well done at the election booth. Until we get these two things to align don't expect change and stop complaining about it.

TheK
Saint Paul, MN

Isn't Buddha wise?

Ms V
Saint Paul, MN

Let's see. Frogtown house, taxes up 15.8% this year, 18% last year. Within my block, on my side of the street alone, at least 5 houses that I know of for sure are in foreclosure, including the one that is about 10 feet away from mine. There are those in county gov't making some damn good money, but I, as a county employee, sure am not. And I guarantee you the people I deal with every day are not what are considered "upstanding citizens of society". Meanwhile, I need a replacement back entry door, a couple of replacement windows in my dining room, not to mention maybe a little bit of money so I can pay my Rx and eat. Notice I said "replacement" instead of "new". If I could find decent ones that fit my 1891 house used, I'd be glad to go for it, if I could afford it.
My sister was right to tell me to not waste my time with this meeting as nothing will change. Glad I listened to her; I was in bed before 8PM after dealing with unhappy people all day. I am grateful for my job, truly I am - I have been through hard times before and I know that eventually this will pass. Meanwhile, a big middle-finger salute to Property Tax and Revenue of Ramsey County for entirely obliterating any equity I had left in my house. Guess I won't be restructuring any of my debt any time soon. Hope you are reading this Xcel Energy, because I won't be paying that bill in full for a long time, especially if I want to eat.$26k in equity - gone.

Kathy in St Paul
Minneapolis, MN

I wish I had the luxury to go backwards with my budget and make up for my poor planning. As I understand this, St Paul and Minnesota did not get the federal monies they thought they’d get. Of course, they spent it before they got it. So now they need to get it from somewhere, and who better to charge than crippled homeowners. And, to add insult to injury, they insult us by making up something that sounds like they are doing this for our good.

Our government officials sound just like the criminals I work with in the prisons.

Ms V
Saint Paul, MN

Kathy in St. Paul - I work in Corrections, I hear ya. Thing is, I didn't have poor planning and I still got screwed. Gotta love St. Small.

Fire the Government
Saint Paul, MN

The five Ramsey county commissioners that sought to give them
selves a hugh raise and it fact they did at a time when everyone
else is taking cuts, is one of the reasons these 40.000 plus have
to pay more taxes, someone has to pay for these useless commissioners
salaries and benefits. The word government should be replaced with the word redundancy for this is really what it is, the people of Minnesota
should start a movement to reduce the number of redundant
elected whatever or whoever they are, running this state.

st paul
Minneapolis, MN

we need to not show up for a voting session. we dont need officials that dont work for us. we all need to boycott taxes. noone pay. raise the taxes of elected officials first.

Ken
Saint Paul, MN

Pay up and quit belly aching. You want Democrats, step up and pay for them.

RaciallyProfiled

You're all hypocrites. You're the same group of clueless voters who supported a legislature that raised the gas tax in 2007. This year, you voted for an ammendment that increases our sales tax for the next 25 years! Now, you're whining about property taxes being too high?........pay up, and act like the progressives you wanna be!

Fire the Politicians
Minneapolis, MN

The bureaucrats are bleeding us dry. There are lots of unnecessary emplopyees in government.
diceast

Minneapolis, MN

please keep in mind that yesterday,the mayor told all dept's of freezes/cutbacks in services/hires....
vacant homes will NEVER be properly addressed,cops will continue to migrate to the 'burbs,city council
is too worried about the little teeny tiny rocks it
thinks are an issue. thune was out back havin' a smoke with the city attorney.

9:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I call the city and county government crooks, liars, thieves, and let not forget "ass-holes"!
None of these elected personal care if you live or die, as low as you pay your taxes.
The city and county vote themselves pay raises, fringe benefits and anything to suck every penny from the people who cares about St.Paul.
Lets look at people coming from other states and getting in office.
Norm Coleman -- from New York, Dave "Bucky" Thune -- Fargo North Dakota.
Like I said about Norm while he was St.Paul Mayor, he didn't get that part in his teeth from Sucking Bananas.
Dave, who were you sucking up to?
1996 till now Dave Thune stinks with corruption.
Hey Dave, what will you and this rancid city and county government pull on me now to shut me up?
This is Dave Thune's own words.
“Because of my strong advocacy of free speech" during the Republican National Convention.
Right
Maybe he get FREE SPEECH, but if you or I speak about any matter they will Shut US UP.
Bill Dahn
www.billdahn.com

11:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Thune
Just left the bar, and smoking out side in the cold is for idiots.
I seen that sign about Dave, I think it said something like this.
Dave, I'm not saying your a idiot - but I'm thinking it! I seen it at a bar.

12:32 AM  

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