Pacific Legal Foundation to Work in Cooperation With The A Democracy Town Hall Meeting Forum
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posted by Bob at Friday, September 07, 2007
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Friday, September 07, 2007
A DEMOCRACY TOWN HALL HOME
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SHHHH! While we listen to words of wisdom from a wise man.
Conscience is the light of the Soul that burns within the chambers of our psychological heart. It is as real as life is. It raises the voice in protest whenever anything is thought of or done contrary to the righteousness. Conscience is a form of truth that has been transferred through our genetic stock in the form of the knowledge of our own acts and feelings as right or wrong. A virtuous and courageous person can alone use the instrument of conscience. He or she can alone hear the inner voice of the soul clearly. In a wicked person this faculty is absent. The sensitive nature of his / her conscience has been destroyed by sin or corruption. Hence he or she is unable to discriminate right from wrong. Those who are leading organizations, business enterprises, institutions and governments should develop this virtue of the ability to use their own conscience. This wisdom of using the clean conscience will enable them to enjoy the freedom.
Dr APJ Kalam, President of India given during the inauguration of the seminar on “THE EFFECTS OF CORRUPTION ON GOOD GOVERNANCE AND HUMAN RIGHTS
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63 Comments:
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Pacific Legal Foundation would be pleased to be linked to your blog.
Our website is
www.pacificlegal.org.
If you desire, our attorney
specializing in eminent domain, Tim Sandefur, could provide a link to your website from his blog on eminent domain.
In addition, I have taken the liberty of adding you to our mailing list for our newsletter and other mailings which highlight the most important of the cases we are pursuing.
Feel free to republish our articles with attribution as you wish.
Let me know as other opportunities for mutual cooperation come up.
Best,
Richard Fields
You can find
"Pacific Legal Foundation"
linked to the right of the screen below the "Scales of Justice" links.
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Originally I suggested that the Pacific Legal Foundation and A-Democracy had interests in common and could benefit from working together.
First, it can help promote an interest in property rights.
Beyond that, it helps increase awareness of PLF's mission. PLF's views could certainly help A-Democracy continue in its development.
PLF certainly defends peoples' rights in court, and that is a possibility in this situation. Obviously they must be highly selective in order to use their resources to make the most impact.
PLF is a top-notch advocate of property rights, having been to the United States Supreme Court 6 times with 5 wins (please see their web site).
I personally want to thank Richard Fields for his concern.
Sincerely,
Robert Glenn Gausman
Thank you for chiming in Bob G.
It is contributions from members like you that will help us build strong foundations as a public forum. I know you have been working on this for sometime now.
Bob G, and Mr. Fields! Thank you so kindly!
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Folks, I want to mention A Democracy has some very intelligent arm chair attorneys as members.
Of coarse everyone is aware of Nancy Lazaryan.
And any day now we all will be hearing from a new member Jeff Matiatos who has been successful in court proceedings here in the City.
There is also a very close friend of mine who is a member here who had never put together a law suit in his life until the city screwed him over. Well they screwed the wrong guy! He's smart and very vindictive and the city doesn't know it yet but he served up a can of ass whoop-in on them a long time ago, and it is all coming to a head.
So Mr. Johnson, why is there an effort to bring these people together?
Reading here the last couple months I think people here are just bullying their way with law suits. I think if you people had attended neighborhood meetings you could have avoided all this legal maneuvering. You would have been aware of the citizens concerns and taken care of your property.
These wanna be attorneys are no match for a city attorney who is paid to handle the mis-directed angers of a few citizens.
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"No match for a city attorney who is paid to ahndle the missirected anger of a few citizens" is what Amanda says. It is well know within the city that the success rate of the city Attorney's office is only 50%. Most people would not hire you to cut their grass if you only had a 50% success rate!
Amanda do you have an education or even the knowledge to know anything about what you write here? I would recommend that you do some research before you write, that would save you from some of the humiliation that you are causing for yourself. The corrupt city officials will be exposed by A Democracy and the citizens of St. Paul whether you want to believe the truth or not. By the way this is not a small group and it is continuing to grow on a daily basis.
One of the many angry St.Paul citizens.
Amanda, "THIS IS A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING"! The sooner elected officials realize this the better off they will be.
I am handi-cap, this is the closes I will ever get to a neighborhood meeting.
Alex
Ya hear that Repke? This group is bigger than your group buddy, and it's going to get bigger yet. The forces of truth are assimilating Repke and it's a force that your buddies downtown are not going to like. Ya see, they don't like it when the real truth about things start to get around because the real power is in information, and it's that inforamtion that get them unelected....and when they get unelected,....well....I'm afraid that brings us right to your front doorstep my friend because that means that you are finsihed. I'm afraid thre will be no more money for your neighborhood ventures Repke....just pay as you from now on out. There is a sliver lining in the cloud though Repke. I eat a lot at Mickey's diner and I think I can get you a job as a fry cook over there. Let me know OK....just some words of advice from one friend to another Repke....I wouldn't wait too long if I were you!
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Nancy, give it sometime and Chuck will have you wearing a tin foil hat.. :)
Nancy, Chuck is well liked here. This can be a tough crowd and Chuck earned a grudging respect.
Chuck and Eric are in the "A Democracy Big Kahuna's Club".
Ya Nancy! These guys need aides to carry their balls around. :)
I hear there is a job opening. You applying?
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Chuck, Eric and Amanda are City Hall Defenders. The only 3 people who have ever come here in over a year and defended the city for gentrifying our neighborhoods.
So what does this tell you?
Chuck has a non profit. And close to the city mover and shakers.
Eric is up to his neck in the DFL.
Amanda seems to work for the state of Minnesota.
Isn't it ironic no other citizens at least ordinary citizens come here and debate us on property rights.
Nancy, just so you know 10:26 is the Town Hall drunk. You can always see has been drinking in his post. Telling Chuck he's washed up and so forth.
I enjoy 10:26's comments. And he's right. Chuck and his cronies are all washed up. It was Chuck that started that Town Drunk talk.
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I heard through the grapevine that Deb has taken off and left Fred with the Diva's mess?
A couple of points - I always sign off with JMONTOMEPPOF (Just My Opinion Not Those Of My Employers Past Present Or Future)I post to this forum with my opinion where I work or who I use to work for has no impact on my opinions.
So, as to Nancy's question one of my current contracts is as the Executive Director of a small nonprofit on the East Side. The agency does home improvement loans to low and moderate income home owners, we also do small business loans and facilitate some city grants getting to local businesses. We also do real estate development and have been partners in several projects on White Bear Avenue. So that is the "financial issues" that come up on the forum.
I end up being a "City Hall defender" because I know most of the elected officials in Saint Paul and don't buy the conspiracy nonsense that is being alledged. Like I have said here before, some of the accusations are that elected official who flat out hate each other get together to conspire to make Steve Magner money and there are people here who think that makes sense (they need the tin foil hats).
And, Nancy, as we have debated I line up with the Federalists and I fine no place in the constitution where "property" is given any rights. So, Pacific Legal Foundation and other front groups for Mobile/Exon I don't view as a civil liberties group.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
From my experience, I believe the City of St. Paul has lost all sense of reasonableness, and has crossed over the line from enforcement to abuse, which causes great overall damage (See my story posted June 1).
When the City has failed to regulate itself, additional steps will be taken. PLF just may be able to help with this situation.
Sincerely,
Robert Glenn Gausman
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whooo, whooo another civics class...
Nancy said...
"No person shall...be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law."
Sound familiar? Right to Life, Right to Liberty
...Right to Property.
(snip)
Like I said people have rights. Property doesn't.
And Nancy says...
Chuck, have you read this, from the MN constitution:
"All lands within the state are allodial and feudal tenures of every description with all their incidents are prohibited."
Do you know what "allodial" means?
(snip)
Yes Nancy, I know what it means, it means to own with no attachment to anyone, including the government. I also know that the State put this to declare the State free of any other government ownership but its own.
and....
Is "your" land allodial?
(snip)
Of course not there is no private allodial land in the United States or any of the States because all of the land is first owned by "We the People." "We the People" are sovreign and all land rights are subject to "We the People."
And of course Nancy ends with...
I think that the Pacific Legal Foundation understands "allodial".
(snip)
I am sure they do too. All of this front groups funded by Mobile/Exon and other major polutors are dedicated to taking away "We the People's" right to Eminant Domain.
They believe in the Golden Rule...he who has the gold rules. They believe because they have the money they should be sovreign.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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Well that's OK Nancy - you go do your meeting - I will take it from here - this Repke is a tough customer and he need someone that talks his language, and then he doesn't get it sometimes. Rught CHuck....or now that we have had time to get to know each other, why don'tr we just use Chukie boy. I've read you swtuff rEPKE AND i SEE YOU ZERO RIGHT in on the gold and who has the money. Well you don't fool me Repke, I've known all along thjat your in love with the moeny, but there will be no gold for you Repke. There's some changes going on in town Rpek and people gonna be answering to a new order, and that my pitiful friend lands us right on your deoorstep becsause there ain't gonna be any gold for you, just a lot of unfunded go nowhere projects that won't get done. I tried to tell you Chuck, but no , tyou wouldn't listen, you just thought things would go on forever like they were. Well they ain't!!!! Your finsished Rpeke.....all done--- I'm afraid the non profit days for your project have expired around here.....kind of like month old coupon. I tried to help you Repke and I am still willing. I think I can get that job frying hamburger down at Mickeys, but you got to speeak up man. I'm afraid if thrings get nay worse that you may be living in a tent down on Harriet island before long. I's sugest the western tip of the isleand chUCK - YOU'LL HAVE MORE PRIVACY there when your bathing in the river after the rest of the politicains in town wind up trying to stake out claims there for their tentsw. If ya put up a little sign down there maybe one of the barges will pick you up once in awhile for some day labor until things gewt better for the non profit scenen in town. I thinkin
Awww come on Chuck.
If your acquaintances would have put some of their ENERGY into solving these PROBLEMS, than Pacific Leagal Foundation wouldn't be hear now.
Chuck, are you a front group for Helgen, Manger, Thune and other major polluters in the RFL partyin St. Paul?
Nancy, I thought at the end of the other thread that we had agreed to disagree on that earlier bet...
As to alloidal property and your views of the foundations of law, I am always willing to debate a member of the radical capitalists that attempt to rewrite history.
As I have said before the constitution was writen by Madison and Hamilton, not Adam Smith. The notions of property rights that you and other radical capitalists have would be as foreign and nonsensical to Hamilton and Madison as a discussion of space flight and the experience of the lunar landers.
The American Revolution happened at a time when Kings owned all of the land and gave out land grants that they could recall on a whim. The founding fathers look to give those rights of sovreignty to the people. That is their notion of democracy. To think that they would have looked to instead set up a fudal state where all power was vested in the land owners and none in the people is in direct contrast to everything that was occuring both in this country and in Europe.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
Halfway up, at 8:35 it was written that:
"Eric is up to his neck in the DFL."
I'm going to try a different angle here and instead of telling you that I'm not or its not what you think, I'm going to ask, what the hell does that have to do with anything here?
Over and over, without me or Chuck pointing it out, you can observe publicly, people who call themselves DFLers in this town screw each other over and there are clear lines of hatred between some. Some of the very ones you name. Why in the hell wouldn't they sell out their competitors or enemies? Every two years, DFLers fight DFLers for the local elected offices- some DFLers have very long careers ended by fellow DFLers (Randy Kelly). On the inside, there is a disconnect between those who give money, those who work on the ground and those who govern all under the DFL banner.
You will currently find the same situation in the Republican party at the executive and state senate level in Minnesota and the House and White House at the federal level.
That's politics.
While, I have halted any suggestion that there is no corruption, it appears that there is uneven enforcement at the least, there is no way in hell there is a conspiracy among DFLers.
Eric M.
By the way Eric, I think Marcia Moermond and Steve Magner may well have targeted my family and me for removal from the inner-city for purposes of racial bigotry. Certainly there were no behavior problems or landlord issues involved, and we are not Johnny-come-latelys to the racial issue that abandon ship on the latest political whim.
I had one super role model as I was growing up, who had a significant impact on me. In the early 50's, long before anyone heard of the 'Civil Rights Movement' my grandfather hired one of the best and the brightest from the African American community on Rondo Avenue. The man was a superstar, and was promoted. I have vivid memories of this person as one of the top engineers in the state of Minnesota - and some hotels would even rent him a room. He completely outclassed his detractors. Growing up in the shadow of not-so-beautiful N-Lake (it was that way on the map well into grade school) I came to recognize the evils of racial bigotry at an early age.
Eric, I was part of a small core of people who tackled the overwhelming problems of Selby Avenue, and I started some of the major approaches to turning around the inner-city, these were fully in line with city objectives (back when St. Paul was a nice city) and these were highly important to the African-American community. I hope you realize the self-sacrifice and the courage this took.
And then Moermond, Magner and the Shitty of St. Paul come along and treat my family and me as pure scum. When I tried to talk to Debbie Montgomery about abusive treatment by city employees, she even refused to meet with me. Doesn't that woman have any kind of a backbone at all?
Anyway, we are gone. Nobody else has a grasp to modify these things to changing circumstances, and the city has lost a lot.
Robert Glenn Gausman
Ummm....Mr Gausman?....could you give us the details please as Eric doesn't believe any of the allegations or the facts or the evidence. Eric thinks that because no one is investigating these allegations and he can't find a black family that's had this happen to them, well.....lets just say Eric tends to dismiss it all as just a bunch of slumlords who don't want to maintain their property.
I know who you are sir, and also what you went through at your home on Selby Ave. and I would appreciate it if you would tell the story so people like Eric can see that it is not just the same old "slumlord scapegoat" routine that the city was enforcing.
Mr. Gausman.....I almost forgot, can you imagine that? WOuld you also Tell Eric what authorities you have complained to regarding this conduct of city officials, because you see, Eric thinks no one has complained to different authorities because those authorities are not doing anything in the way of an investigation, so Eric with all of his wisdom that the rest of us do not have, well...he thinks if you don't complain and you don't go to neighborhhood meetings, well then you just deserve to get screwed over
Any comments on that Mr Gausman?
And by the way, tell us how life is going for you now outside of the wonderfully corrupt city of St Paul.
7:12
Nobody deserves to get screwed over. I never said it or projected that I think its OK.
I say more than enough on here with you trying to put extra words on me.
Eric M.
Mr. Gausman,
What I don't need is a lecture from a Johnny Come Lately. I'm well aware of the history of Rondo, hell- Minnesota in general, and its not so nice attitude toward blacks.
If you went to Montgomery and she didn't see you, I wonder why, if what you said you did, she'd have no problem talking to you.
See, I know that her family not only lost their home on St Anthony when she was a young teen but, the amount of money they were forced to take for that huge house with a double lot was criminal. Years later, I know Debbie had the opportunity to confront Miles Lord(fmr AG) and asked why it was done without their input, and Miles was embarrassed and apologetic but, basically full of crap with his answer.
Montgomery eventually moved right around the corner from where her house once was and has been active in that community with the goal not letting it happen again. Her work on the Central Corridor is evident of that. She has gone to places like Portland to look at how they developed their light rail without losing jobs, businesses and homes. She brought that back to Saint Paul to implement what they could accordingly. She has always been concerned and proactive to prevent people from being uprooted from their community.
With a 40 plus year record of doing these things without searching out fanfare, I do find it hard to believe that if you approached her with your concern, that you'd be ignored. As a matter of fact, I'll bet $1000 dollars or I'll run across Mears Park in my underwear in January if there isn't more to the story you're not telling.
You can verify this too, Debbie Montgomery is no fan of mine at all, so this is not a case of me protecting friends. I just know her record and history.
Eric M.
Thank you for your contribution, and the opportunity to elaborate 6:28/7:12.
Eric,
First, I am not impressed by your opinions. I feel you have despaired of realizing a permanent solution to the racial situation, and you are taking superficial efforts to only get table scraps. Fortunately, there are a number of people with a more full and complete view. It is time for some truth Eric - as it is written, "The TRUTH shall set you free".
The details of my story are posted on A-democracy on June 1. Basically, a city electrical inspector and an electrical contractor in 1993 left my house service incomplete, and in a dangerous condition. This is NOT my responsibility, that lies with the inspector and contractor. The city had second-class standards for Selby Avenue at that time and I thought that was all I would get (for example, the city did not paint crosswalks or yellow curbs for 30 years on a busy street, which I understand is illegal). I ended up dealing with a 'rogues gallery' of RICO named city personnel.
My own experience told me this treatment was WRONG. I turned to my father, who had spent 9 years on the St. Paul Board of Housing Appeals. He made a number of interesting observations, including:
a.) The individuals on the board did not always believe the inspectors.
b.) In 9 years the city never went into anybody's house, which requires a court order (unlike today's inspections personnel with their forced consent, where they force their way into people's homes with impunity, where they have no business.)
c.) He thought Legislative Hearing Officer Marcia Moermond could not detect when she was being lied to, especially by city inspectors (this brings up an interesting question of who is actually making these decisions, and why).
d.) He said he believed people should be treated as human beings, and he dealt with landlords as people.
e.) He said the code compliance report was the most poorly written inspection report he had ever seen.
My father also discussed this with other highly knowledgable people, and they strongly questioned if the city's actions were POLITICAL.
My father underscored the extreme seriousness of false allegations made by city personnel, telling people I never had a permit, and that I had been stealing electricity. He also provided proof of the 1993 permit to city building official Robert Humphrey.
City Councilperson Debbie Montgomery refused to meet with me.
At the following hearing, Marcia Moermond looked to me to be a totally different person, and I did not believe she expressed any professionalism whatsoever. There apparently had been information provided as part of the public hearing process that was kept under the table.
Once the code compliance inspection was written by inspector James Seeger, I could not discuss it in any detail with anyone. It was so indefinite, that no remedies could be discussed. Also, the city could demand maximum interpretation at any time, which would be extremely expensive. The report hung over my head like the mythical 'Sword of Damacles' suspended by a single thread. Any whim by Seeger/Magner/Moermond could bring it down. This was extremely stressful.
Bob has reported on the threat for posting on A-democracy to my elderly mother, who was grieving the loss of her spouse.
As far as my life outside of St. Paul, I really enjoy it. Growing up in St. Paul, the people really got to know each other, and cared about each other. My old neighborhood looks about the same, but is very different. People hardly venture out, and it appears distant and aloof.
Now I enjoy people who are very neighborly and concerned. The climate is open, and not uptight like St. Paul.
I encountered the local authorities here Eric, and was very impressed by their committment to excellence (as a past recipient of a public service by Minnesota's governor, I notice such things.) My wife and I were stopped by a policeman for having a burned out brake light. The officer clearly respected us as members of the public. He clearly used his best judgement under the circumstances, without guile, and gave us a warning. This was a job well done.
Eric, I hate to say it, but anybody could experience this kind of abuse on the whim of city officials. My wife and I have concluded that the City of St. Paul has serious problems, and has had serious damage done to it through mismanagement. This damage will be present for many years to come.
Let me add that the fanatical fringes of the Democratic and Republican parties frighten me equally. A permanent solution requires a healthy 2 party system.
Eric, please consider this information, and then join the opposition. Eric, people are important.
Eric,
I saw your comment after my post. Eric, tell me why Debbie Montgomery doesn't have any backbone.
My previous comment and this one,
Signed,
Robert Glenn Gausman
I know of a woman named Denis who also had a terrible time trying to get Deb Montgomery to meet with her when the inspectrors were condemning her house for nothing. Yes nothing. You will be hearing from her also before long because she is also working with attornies along with another group of people who are going to sue the city of St Paul.
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Oh, and Eric, I almost forgot how I almost was killed by the city's actions. The city inspections department gave me a notice how the electrical work had to be fixed within 10 days. An electrical contractor estimated 4 hours of work. In the past this would have properly been considered a "work in progress".
Guess what? They did not give me 10 days. They ordered electricity cut WITHOUT WARNING. At the time I had a severe medical condition that required electricity. The inspections department CERTAINLY KNOWS BETTER than to pull a stunt like that.
This whole episode was extremely stressful, and I believe the inspections department added a maximum of stressors in order to overwhelm people and shut them up.
Perhaps many others would be speaking up, except they have their marriages, finances, and lives damaged by these infantile stunts.
Eric, people are important!
Robert Glenn Gausman
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Eric,
All you have to say is call me a Johnny Come Lately. Where do you get your facts.
You Fraud.
Robert Glenn Gausman
Nancy, my friend, your Adam Smith arguements have nothing to do with how the government was formed and how the founding fathers would view land.
To suggest that in the same sentence where they would free the state of any fudal interest and at the same time give absolute (allodial) title to the new Fudal owner makes no sense! Why would they have freed the land from Fudal (land where the prince has more power than the state) interest and then create a situation where the new allodial (land where the land baron has more power than the state) owners could create there own Fudal ownership interests. They (the land owners) would become the new princes.
The reason for the allodial mention is because the land in Minnesota had in the not to long ago past (from 1858) been owned by several countries. England had disputed ownership of the Arrowhead area and both France and Spain had owned all of the lands West of the Mississippi prior to the Louisiana Purchase. The point in this language is to be clear that if someone showed up with an ownership interest given to them by the King of France or Spain that it had no power. The State (We the People) were declairing all the lands to be allodial clear of all outside government interests.
Sorry Nancy... the state can tax you.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
And from the article you linked...
This decision to not overhaul the English derived common laws existing from the period prior to the Declaration of Independence relating to land largely set up the undoing of allodial rights. This is a lesson to be learned. From the outset, allodial title in this country was at best, “quasi-allodial” and never plenary.
(snip)
So, we can't find anywhere from the dawn of the country where any court ever ruled that the people ever meant to enpower the land barons with more power than "We the People," but the Adam Smith, free market, Libertarians insist that they KNOW that the founders meant something entirely diferrent.
I love this stuff...
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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Nancy, you confuse "We the People" who are sovreign, with you the land owner who is not sovreign. It is the Citizens collectively that are sovreign, not you opperating seperately.
Given your approach there would have soon been a Fudal system in the country where any land owner could have cast his allegence to any foreign government. The country would not have existed. There would have been nothing but a bunch of tiny principalities governed by the land barons. I am sorry but you read the law and our history wrong.
As to the protections of property the fifth amendment is very clear that "We the People" can not take back our land from you the land baron without "just compensation." Which means when the sovreign, "We the People," want our land back we have to pay you for it.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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Don't you love Green vs Biddle a ruling where only 4 of the 7 justices voted and 3 were in favor which lead to the State of Kentucky being willing to leave the Union if the Supreme Court wasn't put under control?
(Weren't you the one who had the problem with judges?)
It was a desition that was deemed to be unworkable and is mostly noted for what a mess it would have made if followed.
Even the Chief Justice eventually had to admit that he had gotten it wrong and that there would be no nation if Green vs Biddle was followed.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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Nancy, Nancy, Nancy, the reason was that the Court ruled that the actions of the State of Virginia held. Let's explain this to the others.
The case that is so big to Nancy is one that happened when the State of Kentucky was formed. The new State of Kentucky had been a wilderness part of the old State of Virginia. When the new State formed, Kentucky started to give out land titles to the wilderness areas (where no titles were on file with the state). What then happened was that they found there were people who had claims to the land from back when it was a part of Virginia. Kentucky said that since they hadn't been clued into the ownership issues when they became a state that they were open lands that Kentucky could give out.
The Court ruled that because Virginia had allowed these people to squat on the land (a way to establish ownership back then) that the land was theirs and the Kentucky had to acknowledge their ownership (not the new owners).
So Nancy, the sovreignty issue was really about Virginia vs Kentucky and that the land grants that "We the People" of Virginia gave would hold, even if the new, "We the People of Kentucky" weren't aware of them.
The Court did not give any more control of the land to the land holder than they ever had before or since. It simply said that the creation of this new State didn't make the owners rights disapear for lack of communication with the new State.
And, yes Nancy what I am saying is this is one country, The United States of America and it is sovereign and you are not. We the People of the United State are sovreign not Queen Nancy.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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...and Nancy you are so close to admitting you are wrong...
The court ruled that they were given title by the State of Virginia. The position of the Court was that it didn't matter if Kentucky knew about it or not, that as long as they had done what was required by the State of Virginia to be owners prior to the creation of Kentucky, then they were the owners, not the people who Kentucky had given title.
It was the People of Virginia's sovreign right to give title of the land to those land owners and Kentucky had to accept it.
And yes Nancy that is the reason for the fifth amendment to insure that when "we the people" want to take back my house for what ever purpose they have to pay me just compensation.
The issue that the founders were dealing with was when the King took back the land grant he didn't pay for it. We the People wanted to make sure that there would be just compensation.
Every square foot of land in this country was either first owned by the King of England or by the Federal Government (We the People). The rights of ownership then given out have always been subject to the Right of Eminant Domain and the policing/regulating authority of We the People.
When you do your discussion of how many land owners there were in Minnesota in order for it to become a State, who did they buy the land from Nancy? Who gave them title? The man on the Moon? The Queen of Shiba? Queen Nancy?
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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Hi Bob! Nancy I should have known my buddy Bob was corrupting you.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Nancy believes that it was the desire of the founding fathers to create a land where individual princes held fudal lands where they could band together with any foreign power at their whim.
They must have been looking forward to the time when we could have all been serfs on the lands of the wealthy capitalists. Who would control the nation. No need for a Federal Government or even a State Government in Nancyland. All of the sovreign states no matter how small would have been owned and opperated by the individual land baron.
I can see Hamilton and Maddison now...
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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Joe McCarthy, I mean Nancy, it is very easy to accuse anyone you don't like of being a communist and thinking that somehow makes your misstatements correct, but it doesn't.
If a nation is to be sovreign then the kind of ownership you and the other radical capitalist think should occur would not be possible. It isn't being a commie to believe that we are a part of one nation and that nation is sovreign. It means that you don't have the right to take your land and become a part of Canada or better still...
We will not allow you to turn your portion of Minnesota over to Fidel Castro and your fellow commies in Cuba Nancy!!!
Because the kind of ownership rights that you are suggesting we have would allow you to do just that. You are saying that you are able to sell off our nation's sovreignty because you have title to a portion of its land.
You are just wrong and the nation went to war from 1861 until 1865 to determine if anyone would be allowed to take any portion of this country and turn it into their own country.
The south lost.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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AAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there is anyone left following this discussion they would note that your position appears to be at least quite flexible when it comes to the power of your title Nancy.
Here is the deal. The country is sovreign. All of the lands are a part of this nation. You get a title that is quasi-allodial subject to the right of eminent domain, taxation, zoning and policing.
JMONTOMEPPOF
Chuck Repke
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