NIMBY REPORT "Not In My Back Yard"
Please click onto the title of this post for the "NIMBY" news letter. The NIMBY Report can be linked on the side bar under "Deconcentrating Poverty" or the title of the post "Deconcentrating Poverty".
Search the site and you will find information about Minnesota's affordable housing. They mention Mary's new project with Catholic Charities (500 hundred units total for "down and outers" as they are referred to). However, like most things concerning affordable housing and crime, the City throws a band aide at a wound requiring 100 stitches
Search the site and you will find information about Minnesota's affordable housing. They mention Mary's new project with Catholic Charities (500 hundred units total for "down and outers" as they are referred to). However, like most things concerning affordable housing and crime, the City throws a band aide at a wound requiring 100 stitches
posted by Bob at Sunday, August 27, 2006
14 Comments:
About 3 months ago Bob posted an article by Professor Goetz titled "Deconcentrating Poverty" at Edemocracy. The post cause quite the ruckus!
Jim kielopf an Edemocracy member and an entrench City Hall defender. Stated these very words "Not In My Back Yard" then went on to say he didn't care were these impoverished people went.
And defended the City in demolishing affordable housing.
What is E-Democracy so afaid of-is it Bob?
Posted 27 Aug 2006 23:01 by David Greene
Bob Johnson wrote:
> As I stated many times they fear retaliation from the City and Edemocracys
> rules exclude them from having a voice under the circumstances.
Stop playing the victim. The rules of e-democracy forums exist for very
good reasons. Any veteran of USENET will tell you that netiquette is
quickly becoming a lost art.
Why do people with these concerns refuse to participate in the forums if
they are able to have access to a net-connected machine? The digital
divide is a major problem, but I don't think that's what you're talking
about in this case.
It looks to me like you're the one barring people from public
conversation. How come you haven't encouraged more people to
get involved?
And when has participating in an e-democracy forum EVER been a way
to get anything done? It's a good organizing tool, but in the end
YOU have to put in the work.
David Greene
The Wedge, Minneapolistop
HAAAAH WHAT A FARCE!!!
Well we all know that victims seldom get the right to be treated by the "rules" that Mr. Greene loves to defend so much.
First E-democracy is scared to have flyers sent out, as Bob as offered, to drive up membersip for them, and then they complain that he doesn't encourage people to get involved.
And that's what all these people, these city butt kissers do is talk...talk,talk,talk....the city is great, that city is good, the poor city wahhwahhwahh.
Is David Greene scared about something, the way he reacts so, you'd think he was being personally insulted. What is netiquite? Is that where people are censored for saying the truth and some not liking it, or where the old men can go to the teenage girl sites and try some good-mannered lying etiqutte on them.
There is 3 kinds of people at Edemocracy. #1. Entrenched bureaucrats and no matter what you say to them they will defend the City's position. The City could come out with a declaration naming a day "FART DAY" and they will endorse it. #2. BROWN NOSERS, people with issues concerning the need to be cuddled by authority figures. #3. REAL PEOPLE most of which only read and never post. But they have opinions and they reflect those opinions when they vote!
The proof of what is going on in the Twin Cities is right here in front of us in the information Bob posted here.
I think Dave Greene, Chuck Repke and others who oppose the property rights advocates should have the spirit to prove their point and address people here at this real town hall meeting.
Why do you want to pass out invitations for Edemocracy Bob? Pass them out for this site it's "Ademocracy" here.
Oh by the way I don't think I'll get my hand slapped for getting off topic. I feel like I'm in Romper room when I go to Edemocracy.
Keep up the good work Bob. I read all that you posted here.I don't like what I've read. It seems we have a discriminatory class war going on against the lower income people of our City.
Bob wrote:
There is (sic) 3 kinds of people at Edemocracy.
Hmmm, well I've been a member of St Paul Issues Forum (what you call eDemocracy or Edemocracy, etc) for over three years. I'm not a bureaucrat. I don't have a need to be cuddled by authority figures -- nor the "property rights folks."
But I do post ... and I've disagreed more often than not with the "property rights" folks. In fact, that's gotten me more anonymous "hate mail" than any other topic upon which I've commented. While you and I have enjoyed fairly civil correspondence, the same cannot be said for some of your "allies."
So are you going to expand the number of "kinds of people?" Or are you going to persist in this "they're mean and we're not" BS?
BTW, which group did the person who gave you the false information regarding Dave Thune's taxes fall into? Glad you pulled that from your blog but was curious why there wasn't more info on who tried to dupe you and why.
I found your post quite interesting Rick.
So far your the only Ed'er with the kahunas to speak your mind here using your own name.I think you have some respect due whether you agree with our position or not.
As for the Thune property tax post. I wish I could tell you who gave me the information. I can't,I gave my word.
It was my responsibility to verify the information regardless of who gave it to me. Something like that will never happen again.
Credibility is important to me!
Some persist the story is true. My apologies to Dave until that day someone can give me proof of the allegations.
I thank you publicly Rick for the information you provided me. It was helpful to me.
And besides this may come as a surprise to many of you, "I like Dave Thune on a personal level".
I was really hoping the story wasn't true.
That being said I am a man of principle. I have objectives!
It will be difficult for me to pass the Watchdog News Paper out in his district.
I pray the property rights issue would come to a satisfactory end for all parties concerned.
For me it would be the promise of thousands of units of "REAL" affordable housing. Something that someone earning $12.50 an hour could afford.
One of my objectives is to build the blog "Ademocracy". Not for myself but for the blue collar citizens who don't have a voice at ED.
I want homeless people to comment.I plan on reaching out to this community.They could comment from a library, friends or families homes.
I want to add a Team feature so others can post topics. I want anyone and everyone that wants to have a voice feel free to speak out.
I promise not to moderate or censor. I want peoples personalities to speak for themselves.
I'm not concerned if a City official post or not. I know for a fact they will read as the site gains popularity. I know enough about politics to understand this.
And of coarse my main objective is to expand the circulation of the "Watchdog News Paper".
That's what this is all about. I am not an island. I have to unite with people who closely reflect my belief system so collectively we can have an effect on circumstances that concern us.
Last of all, I hope you don't get anymore hate mail. I appreciate your comments here even though I don't agree with you.
It's not my place to tell others what they can and can't say about "St. Paul Issues and Forum"
For personal reasons I have decided that I will try real hard not to comment on the subject of "St. Paul Issues and Forums again.
A question for you Rick, have you read the NIMBY REPORT? If so what is your opinion?
Can someone answer some questions I have of this Rick Mons individual?
What group is he with, since he thinks that everyone must be part of a group and every group judged according to their ideas?
How can anyone be against rights to one's own property?
Why is he so concerned about WHO gave the tax information?
Who are his allies? When I was younger my parents didn't like some of my friends, but they were my parents. Rick Mons you are not my Dad, so don't hand out the rules here. I live by God's Ten commandments. I will never be so gullible as to let city officials tell me what to think and then try to run my life!
After Bob took the posting about this Thune tax thing off of this site, why does Mr. Mons insist on getting so angry and frustrated with the postings here?
He needs to get over it. I'm sure Mr. Mons knew that Bob was not sure of the correctness of the tax thing and took it off. I think Rick Mons is trying to stifle conversation here. Well, it's part of our consitutional rights, even the regular pro-city appeaser-type personality of the edemocracy site has rights. This is the exact deal other countries have going on.
Now if those at edemocracy, who admire the city, choose to be dry, boring and with their head in the sand, crying out the greatness of the city with every stroke of their keyboard, so be it but their tower of babel will one day fall. Oh, yes Lord have mercy because the evil will perish.
Now let's examine "a city", a great powerful city who can never be brought down because it is so superior: If a hurricane came blowing in here, where would some of you folks go? Where the city says for you to because it will keep you safe? Or will you rely on yourselves? The city doesn't want low-income, people of color renting in St. Paul, so why would they want to keep them safe. Keep in mind that this is one year after Katrina and remember the marvelous way that city handled it.
Can someone answer some questions I have of this Rick Mons individual?
Who better than Rick Mons, himself. (And who doesn't find it necessary to hide behind anonymity to post here.)
What group is he with, since he thinks that everyone must be part of a group and every group judged according to their ideas?
We'll go a lot further if you don't try to put words in my mouth. I didn't start the classification process -- Bob did. In fact -- and this will require that you actually read what I wrote -- I asked Bob what group he was putting me in since it didn't seem that any of the three fit.
How can anyone be against rights to one's own property?
that's a good point. The phrase "property rights folks" is probably wrong -- it's one that several in the group gave themselves. I'll refer to them as "the anti-City-code-enforcement group" as that seems more correct. Thanks for pointing it out.
Why is he so concerned about WHO gave the tax information?
For several reasons. First the information was plain WRONG. Second, it was DEFAMATORY. Third, it put Bob in a bad light -- he was carrying someone else's WRONG and DEFAMATORY battle.
Who are his allies?
See, this is where the suspicions and antagonism begin to really erode any possibility for communication. If you mean what "group" am I a part of -- none. I know none of the people on SPIF personally and most of the folks on there are familiar to me only because I've participated in the forum.
Over time I've gotten to give credibility to a number of posters there. I don't agree with them on everything and I don't accept everything they say to be the only way. But I haven't found them to be dishonest or putting forth an agenda disingenuously.
Others I have little or no respect or trust for because I've found that they aren't truthful or are coming with an agenda that is dishonestly put forward.
A nice feature about SPIF is that there's always a name associated with an opinion. That way you can create an impression of people over time.
When folks here post as "anonymous" (and I assume there are more than one), it's hard to come up with a composite validation of truthfulness.
When I was younger my parents didn't like some of my friends, but they were my parents. Rick Mons you are not my Dad, so don't hand out the rules here.
Can you cite a rule I've handed out -- explicit or implicit?
OTOH, you seem to operate from an implicit rule: don't post anything that Mr/Ms Anonymous disagrees with or get a critical post ... without any factual basis.
I live by God's Ten commandments. I will never be so gullible as to let city officials tell me what to think and then try to run my life!
I'm curious which commandment this is linked to ...
BTW, the Ten Commandments are fine ... but I hold this as the ultimate commandment:
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." John 13:34
Are you demonstrating this love in your post to me?
After Bob took the posting about this Thune tax thing off of this site, why does Mr. Mons insist on getting so angry and frustrated with the postings here?
I'm neither angry nor frustrated -- not sure how you read that into my question to Bob. It seems, instead, that you're the one who is angry. I'm sorry you feel that way.
I'm sure Mr. Mons knew that Bob was not sure of the correctness of the tax thing and took it off.
Bob can confirm this, but what actually happened is that I sent him a private e-mail with data that demonstrated he'd been duped. Then Bob pulled the blog entry -- which was a good thing.
I think Rick Mons is trying to stifle conversation here. Well, it's part of our consitutional rights, even the regular pro-city appeaser-type personality of the edemocracy site has rights.
How in Heaven am I stifling conversation? By responding to posts made here by Bob and/or others? By pointing out errors? By expressing a different opinion?
Are you suggesting that nobody should express a different opinion and that doing so "stifles conversation?" I'd really like to better understand your accusation.
It's true I classified posters at SPIF. I was determining who's who. And I have formed opinions of people after many months of debating at SPIF.
Guilty as charged!
Isn't this what the City does before it goes after a property investors net worth?
Once again, have you Read the NIMBY REPORT Rick?
Also the City of St. Paul had the Wilder Foundation do a study of the Homeless crisis in St. Paul. Information in the City's Homeless report is supportive of the NIMBY REPORT
I have few questions maybe someone here can answer. What ahppened to the right to feel safe and secure in the privacy of ones own home?
Are inspectors excluded from that phrase? Obviously they are. Second, how does ones outdated plumbing in their own private basement which water; hot and cold flows through perfectly fine effect the value of the neighbors house. I am not saying there should not be code enforcement I am asking realistically about the abuse of it! If you have broken windows, paint peeling of (like city officials), toilets and make shift showers in your back yard(like city officials),overgrown grass(I mean overgrown, not just for a oppertunity to pass out an abatement), trash that hasn't been pick up (that doesn't mean you put it out to be picked up and get an abatement that day before the rubbish man arrives), these are understandable causes, but for inspectors to come into a private home and order a person to put $50,000 into a home (knowing that it exceeds what a typical family can afford) I feel has to be a violation of ones rights. Then you must pay the city to allow you to make these repairs only to have them come back with a new bigger list. Of course the city is not going to offer any kind of financing and with a code compliance just try to borrow money on the property( your answers will be no, no and no again)why because the lenders know in the end the building is coming down anyway! My advice get out of the city.
You Rick would be the hardest to love. Telling the truth is love. Being in awe of any city is exactly what fell Babylon. You know what is right and wrong. Building a Tower of Babel with the poor being booted out is not biblically correct. It may be politically correct, but if you are so into the world and politicians with all their empty promises, then you have no need to heed God's rules. Defending a city against what it has done to the poor and people of color is not love. Bearing false witness is a sin and that's what every inspector out there does and those who go along with them also.
You can say what you want here, just as I, a person who most definitly would feel the weight of some inspector's boot coming down upon me, can speak the truth.
You seem to have no fears of speaking out. Bully for you and more power to you. Tell the truth though, if you really wanted to speak your mind against the city, how confident and happy-go-lucky would you really, honestly be?
Your truth and my truth are different. I'm appeasing nobody by the things I post here. I will defend the Lord with all my heart and soul though.
Are you our new moderator here? Because I have to tell you right off that I'm pretty disobedient at being told what I can say, think, do and believe. All of which are legal to do by the way.
You still didn't answer what is the problem with having rights for one's own property. Or then, answer the reason for the distaste you have for people who want rights concerning their property.
God blessed America and I would hate to see His hand taken away because of what this country, and specifically speaking this city, is coming to. Greed - corruption - arrogance - theft - the list could go on.
So you can come back at me with "love your neighbor", all you want. If you were in our "boat" and had the city coming down on you or had your house condemned, I would gladly offer you a seat. I'm just trying to offer truth here. The truth will set us free.
"All a man's ways seem innocent to him, but motives are weighed by the Lord." Proverbs 16:2
Bob
I wish you would put the information back on your site about thune's property taxes. the Watchdog newspaper did a story about him some time ago and I remember reading it. I could not believe what they were saying, so on my lunch break I went over to the Courthouse and checked on Thunes taxes and they DID GO DOWN, while other people were being raised. Rick Mons is not telling the truth. I saw the tax statement with my own eyes.
one other thing about this Rick Mons guy. He is a Realtor. I know because I know someone who knows him, and as a Realtor he can just go to his computer and look up the taxes to see if what you said was true or not. Do you really believe he would not have done that to have the evidence to back up his position? Sure he did! He just did not tell you because he knew that you were telling the truth, but just like the SPIF cookie cutter formula, he twists it and makes it sound like the truth.
I will get a copy of the document Monday at lunch time and send it to you, and then we should know who is on the level and who is not.
Perhaps then you will re-post the correct information so all of us can see what Mr. Mons and his SPIF people really are.
And then, one day, we will see the motives for some who defend such corruptible behavior!!!!
Some anonymous poster wrote:
I wish you would put the information back on your site about thune's property taxes. the Watchdog newspaper did a story about him some time ago and I remember reading it. I could not believe what they were saying, so on my lunch break I went over to the Courthouse and checked on Thunes taxes and they DID GO DOWN, while other people were being raised. Rick Mons is not telling the truth. I saw the tax statement with my own eyes.
Well, Mr or Ms Anonymous, you will have to get your eyes examined. Here's the information on Mr. Thune's three properties.
For each property, I've shown the Property ID Number (PIN) and street address. Then I've shown the taxes levied per the Ramsey County data base ... anyone who wants to verify it can do so at this site:
http://rrinfo.co.ramsey.mn.us/public/characteristic/index.asp
The data:
PIN: 062822320046 - 26 Irvine Park
2004 - $3,540
2005 - $3,916
2006 - $4,490
PIN: 112823140133 - 943 W 7th St
2004 - $8,120
2005 - $8,316
2006 - $8,780
PIN: 122823210083 - 327 Colborne Street
2004 - $740
2005 - $798
2006 - $922
Unless you're using the New Math (maybe like your "new spelling") these sure look like tax increases to me.
one other thing about this Rick Mons guy. He is a Realtor. I know because I know someone who knows him, and as a Realtor he can just go to his computer and look up the taxes to see if what you said was true or not. Do you really believe he would not have done that to have the evidence to back up his position?
That's no secret -- I've said as much here and elsewhere.
Now I understand what you write above ... but explain to me what you mean by this:
Sure he did! He just did not tell you because he knew that you were telling the truth, but just like the SPIF cookie cutter formula, he twists it and makes it sound like the truth.
Hmm, let's see. I "twist" the truth? It's verifiable -- post whatever you want if you have different information -- just make sure you can validate the information and sources.
This is becoming surreal.
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