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Sunday, August 20, 2006

Comments about Edemocracy

It's only fair to say that Edemocracy is a town hall meeting with "rules". It's not like a real town hall meeting where the citizens are allowed to "vent". One is suppose to be "respectful" there. You see they claim to keep the dialog respectful as to not run off members. So there is a trade off. Moderation that leads to sanctioning (censorship)of those who are deemed disrespectful. A segment of any community would be excluded from a town hall meeting under these terms. They would not have a voice in their community, due to the prejudices of a minority who complain. Now none of this would be important if it weren't for the fact that that Edemocracy is working it's way into city goverments here and across the world.Beauracracys are entrenched everywhere in our society and it's a disservice to citizens across america.> "Some of the comments below reference the police brutality my son received at the hands of the St. Paul PD".I deleted the original post when I deleted my blog. I hope this clarifies any confusion.

Posted by Bob to ademocracy at 8/19/2006 09:41:34 AM


Blogger Bob said...

Bob you are right to be a out spoken person, as you see if you say the truth about anything that is wrong in City,County,State,Federal- Government--You or your family are Harrast to the point of no return.
The Mayor and the Cronies that run this town,they lie,cheat and steal you homes.
Council RATS will see the wrath of GOD before the good people that try to obey the LAW.
Don't -- Steal - The Government HATES "Computation" !
Bill Dahn for Senate Seat # 65
Lets show how Norm and Chris Coleman are fit to spend time in jail.
Along with people at Rap,and the
people at the Commerce Department that help cover up for the of misappropriated Federal Money. State Senator Sandy Pappas helped cover up about RAP in 1997,her worker Ann Cook came to work with me on my Bad Insulation installed by RAP in 1995.
Enough Is Enough.
Bill Dahn Know the chain of Command that Lies-Cheats-Steal's from the poor.
Why did Ramsey Action Program - aka -RAP call me a Liar, Cheat, and a Extortionist ???
They had me get two easements on my home 8 and 10 thousand Dollars.
My Lawyer Dean Barkley go two for $70,000 and $80,000, they worked with him on this matter.
To cover their own BUTT's--
The Dem-O-Rats and the Union run this town.
I will Point The Finger at all and more,
and it will not be the Index Finger.
You Buddy and Whistle Blower
Bill Dahn

Forwarded Message:
Subj: Edemocracy
Date: 8/18/2006 3:47:51 P.M. Central Standard Time
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Hi Bill,

Will you post something at my blog concerning Edemocracies censorship. I'm going there now to post an open topic. I'd sure appreciate it. you can be anonymous.

Hope life is treating you good. Bob

11:57 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

Hopefully some of these government defenders/cronies/gov.pirates/edem fans come to this site Bob to face reality.I could see that someone posted alittle opposition and I liked to see it.Unlike edemocracy, here all are welcomed.Just make sure you have some facts to back up the truth-Who cares who you are-bring the facts and truths.Be ready next week things will be heating up.Stay tuned!
Tim Ciani
p.s. Hi Thune!

Posted by Anonymous to ademocracy at 8/19/2006 07:47:20 AM

11:58 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

I'm from E-democracy and I never said a word becuase all the city affiliates on the site but am very worried about the cities alledged abuses of peoples civil rights.I'm a long time resident of the city and have never heard so much noise over this.So many people are talking about it even smaller city employees.Hopefully Mayor Coleman is looking into this because if its true it needs to stop.I'm affraid the cities out of control.

Posted by Anonymous to ademocracy at 8/19/2006 07:55:09 AM

11:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it says a lot that this person is saying that they are afraid to speak up when on the Edemocracy site or to find out about the truth. And this because there are "city affiliates" on the site. This is America, remember the land of the free. Sad, Sad, indeed. And if that's the case think about actually going through the horrors of being beaten by the police or having your property taken away by the people with all the power. You better batten down the hatches if you live in St. Paul because the city is out of control with power and nepitism. These people love only themselves and are self-serving to the point of the whole city being in danger.

Posted by Anonymous to ademocracy at 8/19/2006 08:16:24 AM

12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please, elborate on the E-Democracy.Org censorship. What message of yours was censored? What is it that you want to say, that E-Democracy won't let you say?

Or are you just unhappy, because not everyone there agrees with you?

I look forward to your reply.

10:05 AM  
Blogger Bob said...

In response to anonymous 8:05> OK anonymous, during the Jessamine dialog I had several messages that were never posted.

Property rights advocates computers were crashing during a heated dialog on Jessamine. My computer, Sharon Andersons and Nancy Ostermans computers crashed at different times. We believe we were being HACKED!I have an expensive Professional computer. I have never had a problem with it until I get into heavy debates at Edemocracy.

Also during this dialog "only" property rights advocates were singled out for identification purposes.

I was so perturbed over the bureaucracy of the site I unsubscribe and had a change of heart and decided to resubscribe and was censored for 6 days.The forum manager ignored all my emails in spite of the fact she was posting to the site so I know she was around.

Bill Dahn, Sharon Anderson & Tom Swift were censored for saying things that upset the entrenched city hall advocates.

I have had email after email from Tim, Michelle, and other entrenched City Hall advocates claiming I wasn't being effective when in reality I have a large following.

As far as people not agreeing with me. I like opposition to my beliefs. It gives me the opportunity to vent, and build upon my causes.

1:40 PM  
Blogger Steven said...

Having your own blog with your own rules is an important step for your own expression. You are free to do what you want here.

I guess the trade off on the St. Paul Issues Forum is that to reach the audience folks do agree to follow the rules. The rules and the volunteer management aren't perfect but we think they are pretty good. The alternative is a complete slug-fest with little or no audience in our opinion. As a non-profit with a civic mission, we care as much about the audience as we do the content of posts.

Also, while people on our Issues Forum can be sanctioned for their actions, posts are not technically "moderated." This means everyone has the equal opportunity to violate our rules as an act of digital civil disobedience. You might get a warning, even suspended with a second warning but we intentionally limit our power of moderation.

Steven Clift
Board Chair, E-Democracy.Org
(Not posted as a response from St. Paul E-Democracy, our local chapter.)

4:43 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

I guess I have to say what Steve isn't saying.

I offered to pass out 35000 invitations to build membership at Edemocacy.

I offered to pass the invitations out in working class neighborhoods free of charge.

That was some months ago. I'm told "no amount of fliers passed out will help increase membership". Yeah sure!

Some would have you believe members have been driven away since our heated property rights debates over a 6 month period at Edemocracy. However, membership has increased significantly.

Imagine a real cyber town hall meeting with a bunch of out spoken truckers, masons, plumbers and Carpenters. We don't have that now at Edemocracy. There is a bunch of white shirts there. Is this representative of the community? NO!


I'm not responsible for the commonly held opinions about Edemocracy. The web site earned that on its own. I have only spoken my opinion on the subject.

And as you see here many others feel the same way.

I know people who have been restricted from posting at Edemocracy due to the ID requirements and have been anxious to vent. I'm happy you were able to express yourselves here.

I personally will not comment on this topic any longer.Of coarse I won't tell you folks what you can and can't say,this is ADEMOCRACY.

7:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am so glad you have uncovered the plot to hack into your computers! I have seen this myself, and as a techie I can give you advice on how to remedy the problem.

The hacking attempts come in by your power lines. They identify you because they hack into the power company databases to get your connection information.

First thing you need to do is to unplug your computer, get a generator and plug into that. They can't hack your computer if you are plugged into the generator.

This is not a joke. Using a generator on your computer is the only way to protect yourself.

6:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yah well, it might seem like all fun, games and joking and that was sort of funny what you said. Only you should be called a Treckie not a Techie. But remember unless you've been harassed by cops (or beaten up by them), had your house booked up with code compliances while your neighbors is falling down, or had your property taken away, then you can laugh and get a good guffaw at all this. Just hope that you never have to go through any of it.

Two things though, never say never and don't ever laugh at anyone else's problem lest they visit upon you.

7:13 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

In response to 4:27

Years ago I owned a farm.

One day my family and I had come home late after visiting friends here in St. Paul. And I had left some fried chicken out on the counter from lunch earlier that day.

I thought to myself I'll just throw this out the door for a Raccoon, coyote or something.

Well about 15 minutes later I heard hissing and snarls coming from under the crawl space of the old farm house beneath the kitchen floor.

Oh my GOD, it was 2 skunks fighting over the chicken under the kitchen floor. WOW, did it stink! The odor burned our eyes to the point we teared up as if we had been maced.

We looked at each other and broke out into laughter. The laughter run the skunks off.

"I feel like I threw some meat out the door and attracted a skunk right here at Ademocracy. :-)

10:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone look in on Edemo lately? It seems that it is rather dry and boring now. A lot of the zing and life is gone! What's left is a bunch of hoopla of how wonderful the government is and how great it is to have politicians knocking on your door. How totally booooring!

With truth stranger than fiction, is it any wonder those left behind on the boooooring site peep in here and then try to cast in some boooring quips of what they perceive to be brilliance of mind.

Then they act as though we don't have rights to have this site going on. And that you have to have rules and regulations. Sound familiar?

This for example: (posted under this thread at 8:05 AM)

"What message of yours was censored? What is it that you want to say, that E-Democracy won't let you say? Or are you just unhappy, because not everyone there agrees with you?"

Yah, like anyone owes them an explanation. It's like listening to pod people. Not that I've ever met one, I think there may be one on the Edemo site though. I can't say who I think it is though, because they may track me down through my power lines.

12:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this something like the censorship that has happened on the Edemocracy site? Are they trying to stifle Sharon Anderson? Government employees are citizens? What does that mean? Is is like the movie star who wants some privacy? I don't get it?

Posted 23 Aug 2006 14:40 by Steven Clift

I'd like to jump in here. As folks know, Sharon is a well known figure in
St. Paul politics who marches to her own drummer. She likes to link to the
world and cc: just about everyone.

At E-Democracy.Org we strive to engage volunteers as citizens to help run these
forums. Michelle's employment - which you can easily find with a Google search
- - has no bearing on the
governance of St. Paul nor this forum. Government employees are citizens.
We also have rules against disclosing private communication on the public

We seem to have a few folks who don't agree with our civilty rules or simply
cannot comprehend what staying focused on local St. Paul issues means. I'll be
filing my complaints to stpaul-fm ( at ) about being off-topic and
taking private communication public and I encourage others to join me to ensure
our Forum Manager has the input required to do her job with support of more
forum members.

Steven Clift
E-Democracy.Org Board Chairtop

3:50 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

I posted a comment to Edemocracy addressed to Steven Clift concerning Sharons post.

To moderate a public forum infringes upon ones right to Free Speech. It also puts the moderator in a bad light. Its a no win situation for the moderator.

I happen to think the world of Michelle, Edemocracies St. Paul Issues and Forums manager. I know that's a surprise to some of you.
I'm guessing Michelles IQ is around 140. She is a sharp cookie!
I admire strong women!

I don't believe she foreseen these issues when she took on the volunteer position.

To "sell" Edemocracy to the public as a Town Hall meeting for the citizens of St. Paul then exclude and moderate a segment of the community is a disservice to the community.

We don't moderate Town Hall meetings in public venues. Anyone remember how nasty some of those meetings over the Stench at the Brewery got?

I am still waiting for an answer as to why we aren't passing out the 35,000 invitations to blue collar neighborhoods to gain members at Edemocracy? I said I'd distribute the invitations free.

Our neighborhoods are predominantly blue collar labors, and yet this segment of the community is almost non-existent at Edemocracy.

The mamagement at ED thinks they have a problem with some of us. What is the problem? (I think the problem is they don't think we have enough manners to be part of their town hall meeting.

Were not civil, were not educated,were talking about issues that are embarassing to the City.

Since the property rights debates started ED's membership soared.

7:15 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

I said I wouldn't comment on this subject again and I broke my promise.

I really didn't expect this post to carry on so long. As everyone can see there is a number of people who feel the need to vent.

The bureaucracy has worked it's way into Neighborhood Committees, Citizens Committees, Dept. of Human Rights, Police Internal Affairs, The Citizens Police Review Committee, The City Counsel and the Courts.

WE"RE ALL TO BLAME! We as citizens of St. Paul weren't involved enough in local politics and this situation evolved over a long period of time.

We need like minded people filling these positions when ever possible.
Think about this advocates, can you serve your city? Do you know someone who can serve the City?

Even the smallest contribution is a big step forward. At the very least attend your neighborhood meetings and express your concerns.

12:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its starting to appear that the once so famous E-Democracy has turned into nothing more that a big B**** session and gossip column. Can anyone name one difference this forum has made on the community other than arguements on how things should be done. You know what, in the end the people that can really make the changes are the ones not listening or paying attention to what the community is saying. I was brought up to under the impression that the government and other officials were to hear what the citizens concerns are. That theory is obviously something of the past, not the present or future! By the way I am refering to the city of St.Paul. St.Paul issues only.
Nancy Osterman
NorthEnd area, St. Paul

3:20 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

I was given a warning at Edemocracy today. I guess I have a threatening personality I'm told. I 'm told I violated rule number 5 & 9. I will admit I broke rule # 9 I posted to the St. Paul issues Forum and I should have posted at feed back. Rarely if ever has anyone ever been wrote a warning for that.

Rule #5 concerns threats. I actually said Michelle was a model citizen. And the real threat was I said I still wanted to pass out 35000 invitations to gain membership at ED. Scared the hell out of them threatening as hell the thought of a bunch of blue collar workers with a voice. Heaven forbid!

3:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


9:49 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

There is some comments under the Eminent Domain title concerning Sharon and Edemocracy.

I said this previously and I'll say it again, Sharon is my friend and I'm proud to say that publically.Friends stick up for each other. You pick on her you pick on many of us.

She can comment here at Ademocracy anytime she wishs, and I will post a title for her and paste her comment.

9:53 AM  
Blogger Angie said...

I didn't dare post at Edemocracy. They want your name, phone number, address. I haven't been asked for all that at town hall meetings.

Bob has a good thing going here. I hope you keep it up Bob.

8:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sure if people really knew the whole truth of the matter, they would be thinking differently.

This site could be cross-referenced with the Watchdog site and the Watchdog paper should have this site down in writing so the neighbors to these city officials and affiliates can go to this site for updates and other stories. If I received the Watchdog paper and I was neighbors to the mayor or coucil members, I would want to know more. Then these people can even post questions that they are afraid to ask.

I think it would behoove this site, it's participants and future citizens or business owners in the city in being mad aware of this site. Instead of handing out all those flyers for Edemo, do it for your site! Then we can refer back to Edemo site so they can see for themselves how it serves the city not the citizens.

9:42 AM

12:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Bob
Bill Dahn here !
About The E-D -GABBY LINE.
Today is 11-27-2006
It's the day that we as ----Whistle Blowers start pointing the FINGER at all Government, and it is not the Index FINGER !
E-D stop's the truth from being posted about the Drity corrupt politicians that run our City, County,State, and Federal Government and the Money within all
the agency's involved.
We are watching the money flow,
and who is on these committees that
get Grants, Star Money, and Federal Funds.
We all Know Ramsey Action Program aka RAP change their name to ---
Community Action Program
So-For "all" that can control the
"FREE SPEACH" on E-D-Gabby Line ---or
any where else ---
----- F U _ K --- "YOU" ! -------

6:45 AM  

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